Freshwater system working fine until

[RobertL]

Freshwater system working fine until I filled the tank. Last Saturday I top off the fresh water tank on my R31CB. Now I’m only getting a very,very small trickle out of the galley and bathroom faucets. The cockpit faucet, swim step shower and ice maker are all working correctly. Any ideas?

 

[bob daily]

I would check the Aerators on the faucets, they will plug after filling due to the stuff on bottom of tank being stirred up and pumped through the fresh water lines.

 

[TexasEye]

My Freshwater pump screen was blocked by garbage. Access was normally inconveniently miserable and impossible to get to. Thank God I am an expert at impossible...

 

[knotflying]

Start at the aerators and keep working back until you have flow, then unscrew the hose from the faucet head and check those screens. Then disconnect the flex hose under the sink that attaches to the faucet. There was at one time, not sure if it is still used, a small plastic check valve in that assembly. Take it out and throw it away. Then check the connections that go to the faucet flex feeds. At one time there were strainers in them. Then check the screen at the pump.

 

[GaylesFaerie]

Last summer, the galley sink suffered very low pressure. I followed advice on Tugnuts and first cleaned the aerator (it was pretty clogged with grit), then removed the plastic wand from inside the spray handle and cleaned the filter backflow preventor there (it was pretty clogged with grit). Then tried to remove the spray hose from its connection under the faucet head as suggested but it was an impossible task for this mere mortal and I gave up after flipping my stubby phillips head up and over the back wall and somewhere down into the bowels of the boat as I one handed fumbled applying pressure to unscrew. Lucky for me, when I re-attached the aerator and wand, I had a nice strong flow.

This spring after commissioning the galley sink had only a dribble again. Bit the bullet but this time I came prepared:

https://share.icloud.com/photos/08e1vLkWte5hYeL5V1BG3tnQg

Notice the safety string to attach to my wrist. Again, cleaned the two items in the sprayer which didn't need it and moved to the spray hose connection again. This time success. The hardest part was trying about 7 different body positions to get both hands in the cabinet and around the sink to line up the screw driver head with the screw head. Once the screw was loosened the fitting pulled right off without much effort.

The preventor / filter in the fitting was really blocked with green grit:
https://share.icloud.com/photos/00eztTQVHOe1_tAielT9TxLkA

Next step is to reverse the process. Thanks, Gary

 

[GaylesFaerie]

Came back to the boat today to reconnect the galley sink and things did not go as well as before. I reconnected the flex hose to the brass connection fitting using PTFE tape and made sure the black washer was in good shape and inserted. Then I cleaned the sink inlet fitting as best I could:

Sink H/C inlet fitting :
https://share.icloud.com/photos/043f9Nei9EYXOE8sa4HuPHGRg

Attached the hose by feel but was only able to get the set screw hand tight (it is damn constricted back there even with my new stubby ratchet driver) with ever so slight play in the fitting):
https://share.icloud.com/photos/088vMzBMexDDa8h3BK8zc1n2Q

Turned on the water pressure, opened the sink handle and had some leaking into the cabinet under the sink onto a dry rag. So something was amiss. I also noticed leaking from the above counter portion of the faucet as well - you can see the water making its way from the faucet to the left and down in this photo:
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0a3U7OjaKJ9OPeaqVrw7QWGvg

My first thought was I didn't put enough wraps of PTFE on the hose to fitting connection, so I re-made that with 3 wraps of PTFE instead of 2. Same leaky result. So now I'm thinking its the O-ring on the faucet inlet? Has anyone replaced that? If yes do you have specs for it?

What's really bothering me now is the above counter leaking. Should I forgo playing around with the O-ring and just replace the whole faucet? The boat is 10 years old so I'm assuming the sink hardware is too and it looks it. Has anyone done that job?

Thanks, Gary

 

[Red Raven]

Hi Gary,

Based on your description I think the issue is the use of the PTFE tape. PTFE is used as a pipe thread sealant where the threads form the seal. Whenever a gasket or O-ring is used PTFE or any other pipe thread sealant should not be used. The threads are only used to create pressure on the gasket or O-ring. Adding PTFE to the threads will just reduce the pressure and thus potentially cause a leak. Remove the PTFE clean the gasket/O-ring and tighten up just beyond finger tight. Regarding the set screw, finger tight should be fine as long as the pipe does not back off the fitting. The water pressure and O-ring should keep it sealed as long as the seal is clean.

If after correcting this it still leaks then new seals are needed, dirty, or you have cross threaded something.

Curt

 

[GaylesFaerie]

Thanks for the reply Curt. I'm confused by your description of how water and pressure flow through the two connections.

The threads are only used to create pressure on the gasket or O-ring. Adding PTFE to the threads will just reduce the pressure and thus potentially cause a leak.

There are no threads near the O-ring. That side of the connection is where the slip-on connection is located. The threaded connection is where the flex hose connects at the bottom of the brass fitting.

As I understand it, H&C water flow into the faucet body, mix and then flow down into the slip-on O-ring section of the brass fitting, through the brass fitting, and then past the threaded portion of the brass fitting (with PTFE tape) into the flex hose to the spray head. I am not putting any PTFE near the O-ring connection. Also, the flex hose was threaded with PTFE as I found it with no leaking. Am I missing something?

In the second picture you can see the PTFE is on the bottom threaded side of the connection and the slip-on connection is at the top where the set screw is. G

 

[Boatdreamer]

Thank you Gary Curt Al and Vicki for all the great information. I just ordered two new sprayer heads, thanks Al for the part number. All I can say is I’m an idiot, I saw the set screw but never thought about that holding the sprayer hose assembly to the faucet. I was trying to figure out a way to get two wrenches back there to get the flexible hose off and never thought that little screw held it to the hard line. I’m going back to the boat on Sunday so I’ll take the hose apart then. Before I try that I’ll take some cardboard and make a temporary back so hopefully if I drop something it will fall into the cabinet. Gary thanks for the great pictures, now I understand how it works. I hope you get your leak fixed, that’s got to be frustrating after getting everything cleaned out and having it leak. I’ll report back next week. Thanks again!

Tim and Donna
Gratitude

 

[Red Raven]

Hi Gary,

Sorry if I wasn’t very clear. I kind of combined your two separate connection types into general advice about connections using gaskets or o-rings. It is also not clear to me whether the leak is at the threaded connection or the slip-on o-ring connection or somewhere else. I’ll try again.

General statement:
PTFE (or any pipe sealant) should only be used on threaded connections where the threads are the means of providing the seal. If there is a gasket (either flat or o-ring), then the gasket provides the seal. The threads or set screw just provide a means of holding it all in place against the water pressure.

O-ring slip on connection with set screw:
I have had this apart before and don’t recall any issues. My recollection is that the set screw just provides a mechanical connection to keep the connector from sliding off. If you have this fully seated and the set screw tightened sufficiently to keep it from sliding off under pressure it should be good. If it is still leaking then the o-ring is likely damaged.

Threaded connection:
You mentioned a black washer in this connection and that is why I said no PTFE should be needed. The threads should provide the mechanical force to compress the gasket and form the seal. The threads don’t provide the seal if there is a rubber washer.

Having said all this your leak may lie elsewhere. I reread your description and note the following. Both connections you are working on here are not on the pressure side of the valve. They are in the flex hose to the faucet head. You also state the leak is after you turn the faucet on. You also point out water leaking on top of the sink. The leak may be at the other end of the flex hose where it connects to the faucet. Some of the water ends up above the sink and some dripping down below through the valve housing. Check the connection to the faucet head to make sure it is tight. If you have actually disassembled the faucet head in this process then the internal part of the spout may not be seated properly. I have had this happen where the water leaks out the bottom of the faucet head.

I apologize if any of this leads you astray. It is difficult to troubleshoot without being hands on.

I hope this helps.

Curt

 

[GaylesFaerie]

Curt, crystal clear this go around! Thanks. Yah, I thought the O-ring may be damaged too. I wonder if vaseline on it would help or is that just delaying the inevitable replacement? Any idea what size / material the O-ring is in case I flip that over into the bilge too?

On the threaded connection, I understand now. The PTFE is really redundant. As long as it is not getting in the way of the washer, I think its okay.

And I did have the spray head apart so your theory for the above counter leak definitely has merit. I re-check that. Thanks again. G

 

[Red Raven]

No, I don’t know the size of the O-ring. Check and fix the spray head first and see if the leak below stops as well. I suspect it may be just running down the pipes from above.

Curt

 

[Boatdreamer]

O-ring kits are available from Amazon for $10 to $25 depending on what you need. I bought a $10.00 kit and I’ve used it several time for different projects around the house. It stays in my tool bag so I have it when I need it.

Tim and Donna
Gratitude

 

[GaylesFaerie]

Went back down to the boat and disassembled the spray head again. Took both O-rings out (one at top and one at bottom), lathered them with vaseline, and reinstalled. Then I removed the end of the flex hose with the brass fitting again from the supply tube coming from the faucet, vaselined the end of the supply tube that has an O-ring, and reassembled. Voila! To my pleasant surprise everything is flowing nicely and not leaking. Thanks again Curt.

 

[knotflying]

Next time that back flow gets clogged remove it and throw it away. I removed mine ten years ago and I am still alive. Also, your boat may have screens at the fittings where the faucet hose connects to the supply lines. I have never seen so many screens in a system before as is with a ranger tug!

 

[YukonRon]

Just a note of caution on using Vaseline for lubing O-rings. Vaseline is petroleum based and could be bad for your O-rings, depending on what they are made of. There are special O-ring lube products on the market made for the purpose. I keep some on board for the sea chest lid; having a failure there could be catastrophic. It's worth finding the right product for the job.