Freshwater vs salt water boat / R25 classic 2008-2009

[Two killicks]

Good afternoon, if you were to buy a 2008- 2009 RT 25 classic, both being pretty much the same price, one was used in freshwater with 1900 hrs on the 110 hp yanmar and the other one used in salt water with 600 hours on the Cummins 150 hp engine. Which one would you buy? And why?

Thank you!

 

[baz]

If both were as in good condition as each other I would opt for the Cummins 150HP, 600 hour engine model. Of course a professional Survey needs to be done on both which could point the way for making a sound decision, and I would try and get some insights in how well the boat has been loved and looked after.

 

[knotflying]

And I would go the other way with the Yanmar. There have been some issues with the Cummins regarding their relationship with Merc. When there are issues they often point their finger at one another. And then again, that extra 50 HP makes a difference. I would say a well cared for boat whether in salt or fresh is the better boat.

 

[baz]

Another thing to think about is the access to nearby engine technicians for the Yanmar vs. Cummins. You want one that's reasonably close by to keep cost down when requiring service.

 

[sabadd2003]

I have the Yanmar 110 with 1000 hours runs great. I have been battling an overheat issue but will sort it out when the season ends. If you are handy around engines its perfect no electronics to go out. The one draw back is the top speed if 7-10 is good you will love it.

 

[Red Raven]

The 110 hp would be a show stopper for me. Just not enough hp. The saltwater boat would depend on the condition. I would have to go through it thoroughly to determine if there are salt water corrosion issues.

 

[daveo]

I have a 2008 R25 with the Cummins. I can obtain parts locally, so that is not a problem. It will go 20 MPH WOT. The chart plotter says the top speed has been 24MPH, that had to be downhill with the wind. My biggest concern was changing the fuel filter on the engine and the impeller. Both are on the port side, front of engine. I cut an access hole in the cave and that helped a lot. I would take the Cummins for the higher speed. Several times, it has been used for comfort or end of day rush. I have a friend with a boat that will only go 8 MPH, they are looking for a different boat, with higher speed.

 

[scross]

First, I am very biased about this, so know that up front. I would pick neither. Instead I'd look for a late 2009 or 2010 Classic with the 150 hp Yanmar AND one that had Garmin electronics. RT switched to the 150 hp Yanmar just about the same time they switched from Raymarine to Garmin. On the used market whatever the price difference is now, I think you would get it back when time came to sell. Be patient and you can find one. We looked at 6 used boats before buying and even though our boat was 700 miles from home, finding it was worth every mile! And no, mine is absolutely not for sale!!

 

[knotflying]

First, I am very biased about this, so know that up front. I would pick neither. Instead I'd look for a late 2009 or 2010 Classic with the 150 hp Yanmar AND one that had Garmin electronics. RT switched to the 150 hp Yanmar just about the same time they switched from Raymarine to Garmin. On the used market whatever the price difference is now, I think you would get it back when time came to sell. Be patient and you can find one. We looked at 6 used boats before buying and even though our boat was 700 miles from home, finding it was worth every mile! And no, mine is absolutely not for sale!!

Very good points. I think you nailed it.

 

[Two killicks]

I really appreciate your input, thank you very much, so far on the market I found a lot of Cummins 150 hp but no Yanmar 150 hp. Is the cummins 150 hp reliable?

 

[Just Dreamin']

Your question, "Is the cummins 150 hp reliable?" I do not want to lead anyone down a particular path with one engine over another as we all have our opinions. I can say I have been running the Cummins-Mercruiser 150 since 2010 and have only had to replace one part - a IAT sensor this year. Starts first time within about 4-5 seconds and runs quite nicely. I had to inject the Cummins-Mercruiser comment as rightly stated in a previous post Cummins and Mercruiser dissolved the joint venture several years ago with Mercruiser taking over service and support for the QSD series. I for one have no issue finding a part, if needed, as my marina is a certified Mercruiser repair facility with two crackerjack young certified mechanics. I have found the Mercruiser on-line technical support for engine questions to be very good. As any engine out of warranty, which I suspect the ones you are looking at are, service become a matter of dollars. I find what I refer to as common maintenance easy, impeller change about 45 minutes, oil and filter change about 45-60 mins, secondary engine fuel filter about the same. As with any engine (CMD or Yanmar) mounted in an R25 classic one must get into some funny positions to accomplish standard maintenance. The only special tool I have purchased for the engine was the ECM diagnostics cable as early on in the QSD life finding either a Cummins or Mercruiser service facility with appropriate cable to interface with their laptops (for diagnostics) could be a challenge. I found the part number and purchased one off of Ebay. Now it stays on the tug and always available no matter where we venture off to. Sorry for the long post but the question is somewhat an opened ended question as no matter what engine, Cummins, Mercuiser, Yanmar, Volvo, Cat, etc. they all can have an issue. However, typically with a diesel give it clean air, clean fuel, change oil, and use it (diesels do not like to sit) they will last a very long time. With all of the above I could arrive on the tug tonight or take a cruise tomorrow and have it not start or stop running as could happen with anything mechanical. I would say after a good marine survey go where you are comfortable.

 

[scross]

Early on when the Cummins 150 was introduced there were some hard starting problems due to a bunch of bad ECMs. Search on this forum "Hard Starting Cummins" from 2009 for a LONG thread on this topic. I would assume by now that all of the bad ECMs have been replaced. That early experience may have caused a negative perception of the QSD turbo Diesel engine - justified or not.
Currently, parts and service availability for the QSD can be an issue. When Cummins and Mercruiser parted ways Mercruiser got the smaller joint venture Diesel engines and Cummins kept the larger Diesel engines. Check to see if your local Mercruiser dealer is trained on servicing the QSD series engines. I've heard folks say going through a Cummins dealer for parts is an option if you have trouble with parts through Mercruiser.
Not saying all is warm and fuzzy with reliability, parts and service for the Yanmar engines. Both lines of engines have their own quirks.

 

[doke01]

Have a 2007 R-25 with a 150HP Yanmar. We have about 1100 hours on it. The engine always starts, has no computer to worry about and, once started, needs absolutely no battery power to keep running. In other words, your batteries could die and the engine would just keep running until it ran out of fuel. Having no computer means that a bad sensor won't shut down the whole engine. It's just super reliable and, even on the few occasions I've had engine issues it's always gotten me home. I'm definitely a big fan of this engine. 1900 hours on a Yanmar is still a young engine. Mechanic friends have told me you can get 6,000 - 10,000 hours of them if you take care of them.

Regarding whether salt or fresh. If they are equally cared for, go for fresh. However, it's rare that two boats are cared for in the same way. Take a really good look before you decide and, remember, a little cosmetic rust doesn't mean the boat isn't fundamentally sound.