fuel fill

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T

terraplane

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Fluid Motion Model
C-248 C
Now that my boat is up on land, witnerized...and awaiting Spring...i let my mind wander.

My experience has been good with this boat. It took some "learning curve" time for me, since this boat has things on it I have never had before..(remember: 7 or 8 wooden deadrise Chesapeake workboats...no water, no heat, no complex wiring, no toilet, etc)...but i learned in the first season, and my support at Gratitude was always excellent...they never made me feel stupid.

One thing wonder about, and wonder if others have had my experience: I find it very difficult to fill the fuel tank withouot having spills. I have to insert the fuel hose, (and it only goes in a short way) and then take a long time to put the fuel in...really, just in spurts, at half-speed. It always seems to me that this was more trouble than it should be.
Am i doing something wrong? Anyone else experiencing this?

Tom (Terraplane)
 
I have also noticed that on each fill up it must be done slowly, in small spurts. The nozzle will not extend very far. When pumping 50 gallons in a 70 gallon tank, it takes longer than I am accustomed to and if care is not taken it will spill.

rupunzal
 
I had the same problem on my R25, Hull #4. What we found out was that the fuel fill was self venting. Inserting the nozzel into the fill blocked the vent. We had the fuel fill changed and a independant vent installed. No problem now.
Ed Brady
 
How did you have the fuel fill changed? We have hull #13, please tell me more. A little gasoline spill was bad enough, diesel smells bad and is more difficult to deal with.

Tuggin Aweigh
Frank
 
This can go many different ways. We did a few different installs on our R25 until it was perfected. Ed is talking about combination fuel fill and vent all in one fitting. The thread started I think about the fuel nozzle not fitting into the fuel fitting all of the way. I will try and explain the different ways I know of that were done on the R25.

Ranger started with a fuel fill on the starboard side of the boat with it vented in the same area. What I found with that installation was the fuel line had somewhat of a pea trap going on with it. The fix for that one was cutting an access hole inside the cabinet underneath the stove and cutting off some of that excess fuel vent hose to get rid of the pea trap.

Ranger then moved the fuel fill to the aft of the boat but left the vent on the side. Same problem was happening with the fuel vent hose creating a pea trap due to excess hose. The other complaint was that when you were filling you couldnt listen to the vent gurgling and it would overflow out the side without seeing it.

Ranger then moved the Fuel vent back right next to the fill where we currently install all of them now.

For your fix Frank the best thing would be to call me and I can explain what to do to move if desired.

As for the nozzle not fitting into the fitting this is a pretty common thing. I am currently working on an easy solution for our customers that can only fill with the commercial nozzles. On the west coast most of the gas stations are using standard nozzles and we dont have that problem. The feedback I have been getting from the midwest and the east coast is that they can only find the commercial nozzles when they fill up.
 
We had a heck of a time with Island Ranger (hull 23) in the beginning. It turned out the vent line was crimped where it ran into the engine compartment on top of some other lines. John fixed it in minute by pulling it free.

We have two size filler nozzles here in the Pacific Northwest - and some marinas are set up with both. Some have high speed pumps, and low speed pumps. The high speed nozzle does not fit - and I have often given up trying to use it (when I had an option. The solution I used when cruising the Inside Passage was to purchase a large funnel - it worked like a champ. I also tried using a baja filter - but it was just way too slow for me....

mac
 
So, Andrew...with my hull #59, i think.....the fuel fill is on the stern..and where would the vent be...and which of these fixes would be the one for me...Would the service guy at Gratitude, John, know about this problem enought to know what to do to fix it? Would (or should)this be something the factory covers?

On my last fill of the summer, there was a slight spill..(i lean in right next to the fill, and listen, but it still burped)...and ,with my luck, one of our Chesapeake Natural Resources Police was pulling in behind me, observed the spill and gave me a pretty severe dressing down...but no fine...

tom (terraplane)
 
Tom ask the cops! If they saw it, it probably came out of the vent! :?

Charlie
 
I had the same issues with my R-25 (hull # 25) with the side fuel fill. At the end of this season I added a "fuel whistle" to the vent line. The web site for it is:

http://www.greenmarineproducts.com

I only had one last fill-up at the end of the season using it but it worked great. It is the same technique now required for most fuel oil tanks in homes that use heating oil. The air rushing out of the vent makes a loud whistling sound and when it stops, the tank is full. The narrow constriction in the whistle body also seems to stop the splashing of small amounts of fuel from the vent as the tank nears full. Kinks in the vent line that some people have reported would still need to be fixed for this to work properly.

To install the whistle, I had to cut a hole in the back of the storage cabinet under the stove area. Installing the whistle in the 5/8" hose is simple. The hard part was cutting the hole to get to it. Actually that wasn't too hard either but I'm always nervous cutting a blind hole not knowing exactly what's behind what I'm cutting into!

I wish I had more experience using it before making this report but as I said, I only had one last fill-up before the boat was hauled out for the winter. I heard about this device in one of the boating magazines, don't remember which one, and people that have used it swear by it to prevent overfilling the tank and splashing fuel out the vent or the fill tube.

It does not solve the problem of having to fill the tank slowly when using a high-capacity pump, but it does let you fill it at a high rate until you hear the tone of the whistle start to change as the tank nears the top and then slow down as it tops off. As I said, I wish I had more experience with it to give a more accurate testimonial based upon multiple uses at various fill stations, but I won't have that opportunity until next summer! Has anyone else used a similar device?
 
On hull # 46 our vent is on the starboard side. We always get some fuel coming out of the vent at every fill-up. While Kerry fills the tank at the stern, I sit next to the vent and catch the fule in this plastic gizmo and listen. The I tell Kerry when it is getting full.

Nancy
 
Yep, I have fuel coming out the vent while filling as well. I use the plastic gizmo ("no spill") which attaches (suction cups) over the vent and catches whatever fuel comes out. At most docks, I can hear the gurgling and stop filling when the gurgling stops. At noisy docks it is more difficult.

I had the whistle on a boat I used to own - and remember that it worked great (except that it sounds like an alarm and catches everyone's attention when you are filling....)

mac
 
Hey, that's the same gizmo we use!

Thanks for remembering the name.

Nancy
 
During out 1,600 mile river trip, we were getting fuel once a week. Andrew and Mac are correct about the different fuel nozzle sizes around the country. In the Pacific Northwest, the conventional size nozzle is often not a problem. But on the Tennessee River system in the mid-west and south, the nozzles are bigger and therein lies the problem. Many times, we could only put the nozzle in about an inch and then dribble the fuel in. When the fuel dribbles in, in foams and that foam comes back up the filler tube and sometimes out the vent.

We had these issues, slow fuel fill, foaming and spill out the vent.

Two things we are trying. First, when the chain that connects to filler cap was broken by a big nozzle (and the cap went overboard in alligator waters) we found the nozzle would go in a bit farther, so we did not re-attach the new cap to the chain. Second, we bought a bronze pipe extension (from Lowe's in their plumbing section) the 1 1/2" diameter, NPT (national pipe thread) just screws into the threads used by the cap and we have 3 inches longer to put in the nozzle. They come longer too. The plastic pipe is available but I do not know if diesel is compatible with this kind of plastic.

Any other ideas out there?
 
I guess this is another one of the benefits of trailering. I fill at the local fuel station where fuel is always a dollar to a dollar and a half cheaper per gallon, and I don't have to worry about the nozzle size or if a tiny bit dribbles overboard.
We store Solitude in a very large garage so we just back her in, plug her in, and away we go until the next adventure.
 
j&lgray":2ngqqavm said:
During out 1,600 mile river trip, we were getting fuel once a week. Andrew and Mac are correct about the different fuel nozzle sizes around the country. In the Pacific Northwest, the conventional size nozzle is often not a problem. But on the Tennessee River system in the mid-west and south, the nozzles are bigger and therein lies the problem. Many times, we could only put the nozzle in about an inch and then dribble the fuel in. When the fuel dribbles in, in foams and that foam comes back up the filler tube and sometimes out the vent.

We had these issues, slow fuel fill, foaming and spill out the vent.

Two things we are trying. First, when the chain that connects to filler cap was broken by a big nozzle (and the cap went overboard in alligator waters) we found the nozzle would go in a bit farther, so we did not re-attach the new cap to the chain. Second, we bought a bronze pipe extension (from Lowe's in their plumbing section) the 1 1/2" diameter, NPT (national pipe thread) just screws into the threads used by the cap and we have 3 inches longer to put in the nozzle. They come longer too. The plastic pipe is available but I do not know if diesel is compatible with this kind of plastic.

Any other ideas out there?
Click to expand...

I have dreaded a fuel stop. I believe the vent is crimped. Fuel never comes out of there. I spill a gal every time no matter how carefull we are. My filler cap must be 1 1/4". I bought a 1 1/2 nippel and it is to big. I will go back to West Marine today and get a smaller one. Maybe just a reducer leaving the bigger nipper for the bigger nozzels. John, this is a terrific idea. I think I will get a cap for the nipple. That way if I loose the original cap I will have a spare.
captd
 
CaptD

I know they have moved everything around, so the fuel & vent lines don't run in the same places. But I suspect there is still the strong chance that the vent line is crimped. Can you trace it through the boat and see if it is pinched anywhere? Perhaps you can try to blow air in the vent, with the filler cap off and see how easily it goes in? (Now that conjurs up quite an image - CaptD blowing on the fuel vent outlet - be sure to take a picture!)

After John fixed Island Ranger, fuel stops are now "easy" as long as they have the low velocity pumps. On high speed pumps, and those with the big filler noozles, I use my very large funnel......

Mac
 
I got an 1 1/4" nippel and a reducer from 1 1/2" now I think I need a 45 degree street 'L' to turn the fill upright. I am keeping the 1 1/2 for those big nozzles. It was a $100 worth of bronze without the street "L" I think it is going to make my fill days a bit easier. Hope it works, I will let you all know.
captd
 
I do stand corrected, the filler tube takes an 1 1/4" pipe thread and I have both a metal one and a plastic extension now. Huge thank you goes to Andrew who installed a new vent line in the Laurie Ann that mirrors the installation done on the Rangers. I thought there was a problem in a sagging vent line that would trap fuel and therefore act like a P-trap plumbing fitting-it would stop the air from leaving. However, Andrew said the old vent line was fine. He did install a whistle on the vent line that tells me with the tank is nearly full so I can act accordingly.
 
Ok, I now have a 1 1/4" street elbow, ( 90 degree ) 1 1/4" nipple, a reducer from 1 1/2 to 1 1/4" 4 inch 1 1/2 nipple and a cap. Just a hair under $150 from West Marine. I will have pictures in much album.

captd
 
OK,
Trying to follow this. Since i put one of the first questions on here about this problem...now trying to figure it out.

Hull # 52..should i assumethere is a vent problem with tubing needing some kind of reorganizing? And should the factory be responsible for this?
Next, if is screw in the extension ..i understand the size now is 1 and one quarter...will that solve the filling problem for me?

tom
 
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