Fueling problem on a 25SC

[Brian B]

2010 25SC 80 Gal tank. I have had a consistent problem when fueling the boat at marinas. I have to trickle the fuel into the boat otherwise it will spurt out the vent or overflow the fill opening. I am cruising with Knotflying and we have removed the board over the fuel tank between the cabin and engine. We notched the board so the fuel vent hose would be higher coming out of the tank. There are no kinks or dips in the vent hose from the tank to the vent. The vent hose and the fuel vent are clear. After the modification made I still have to trickle fuel into the boat. Is this common or are we missing something?

 

[1Harrison]

Brian,

We have a 2014 25SC. The first season we had an occasional problem with over flow of the vent. Assume operator error. However this year we did not have an overflow at the vent, but experience burping at the fill. It sounds like your almost full you stop and 4-5 seconds later a burp bubble pushes full out the fill. Started in Desolation thought it may be a different flow rate in Canada, however it continued following return to US. Checked the lines no obvious reason.

 

[SGIDAVE]

Brian,

Can you confirm that your vent is truly "venting"?

Try blowing on the vent with the fuel tank cap removed...air should flow easily. If you hear 'bubbling' then something is wrong. Are there any loops or low spots in your vent hose?

The only reason I can think for fuel to burp out as you have described is due to inadequate venting. Or, could the fill hose be kinked or somehow constricted?

dave

 

[Gin]

Brian, seems like you have a problem that needs correction (in the vent or otherwise). Once you get it corrected, I recommend checking out the "clean way fuel fill" for regular fueling. I bought one at a discounted price when Fisheries Supply in Seattle first advertised them. I have not had a chance to use it yet, but I did end up exchanging emails with the guy who developed it. I am totally impressed with him, and with the product from what I know so far. It's not cheap, but I think it is worth it. Lets you fill your tank as fast as the pump handle will permit, without overflow. The "inventor" is Garry Fox, and his website is here:
http://www.cleanwayfuelfill.com.

There are some You Tube videos that will give you an idea of how it works. I think his website links to them, but if not, a You Tube search will ferret them out.

I will be using mine in the next month or so to fill the tank for the Portland Christmas ships parade. Then I will probably refill it afterwards, so that it is full for the rest of the winter. I will try to remember to report back on my experience -- good, ill, or indifferent -- once I can report first hand.

Good luck!

Gini

 

[2Troopers]

Great thread. We've had the same issue, but being new I figured it was all operator error. I'll try all your advice. Good to know that refueling isn't supposed to be such an issue.

 

[S. Todd]

I have only filled my 25SC when it has been on the trailer. It sits bow down on my trailer and I have had no problem with fuel burping or coming out the vent hole. Because the fill and vent are both at the aft end of the tank and you are standing on the platform so the fill and vent hoses may be running down hill from there to the stern. I suspect you are getting an air lock in the front of the tank that has to bubble out as more fuel is forced in. I wonder if crew sitting on the bow would change the angle enough to solve the problem?

 

[Glen]

I agree with S.Todd's comment regarding the need to make certain that the stern is not too low in order to keep fuel at the rear of the tank from blocking the vent. In addition… the vent is located on the starboard side at the aft end of the tank (at least it is on my 2015 R-25SC), so making certain that the stern and starboard side are not too low while refueling on the water should improve the ability to refuel without having fuel prematurely block the vent.

 

[knotflying]

Very interesting observations regarding the level of the boat. I worked with Brian to ensure that the vent line was not sagging and maintained an incline. My initial observation is that the vent outlet is almost parallel in height as the fill line, so as the tank fills it seems to get harder for the fuel to enter. I even stated wondering if he actually had an 80 gallon tank , and he was trying to squeeze in more fuel than the capacity, but the label does say 80 gallons.

 

[Levitation]

The Clean-Way obviously works well on tanks that vent back through the fill opening like the boat in their video.
It is also a much larger diameter opening than our tugs have.
I suspect with flat tanks like our tugs have fuel will still blow up the vent line because the vent opening on the tank is not far enough above the fuel level and the displaced air attempting to rush back up the vent will push slugs of fuel ahead.
I am thinking that the Clean-Way might work on a tug if you block the vent during filling with a rubber plug - so it may turn out to be a partial solution to our fueling problems.
But an issue will be that filling until the rising fuel reaches the Clean-Way and trips the nozzle will have fuel at the same level in the vent line leading to burping as the hull rocks. So we will have to stop filling before that point.
The other issue that occurs to me is that our fill opening is laying over at an extreme angle and I am wondering if that device will keep triggering the automatic shut off on the handle. Also, diesel nozzles are larger than gas nozzles. I am assuming that the O-ring around the nozzle is adaptable in some manner.
I will be watching the reports on this device with great interest.
I have noticed in the past that when the tug is on the trailer (a bit nose down) that it fills with a lot less burping.

 

[rick&sue]

We have an older 25 (new to us) with the fill and vent on the starboard side. It has been a real learning experience trying to fill without spilling from the vent or the fill tube. As you may have experienced - it does't take much diesel fuel to make a nasty oil slick on the water. Real interesting when we were filling the tank at a National Park Service fuel dock at Isle Royale National Park. Absolutely no drips of fuel into the water is allowed. The fuel gauge is inaccurate, so I can't use it to determine when to stop filling. Some small amount of fuel comes out the vent every time I have pumped fuel in. I made a collection bottle that covers the vent and collects the "burp". The procedure we use now is to First - dock on the starboard side (I have filled the tank hanging over the side of the boat - because I could not dock on the starboard side. - will never do that again... 😳 ) either clamp on or manually hold the catch bottle over the vent, fill the tank, at a reasonable rate of fill, until we get a burp out the vent - then slow down the fill rate till we see foam coming up the fill tube, then stop. I keep absorbent pads to collect drips. This procedure works for us. There are pictures of the collection bottle in the album.
It seems to me that it would be better to have the vent exit the boat above the fill tube and the vent tube to have a screen (or multiple screens or a coil of wire) in it to break down the foam and preventing it from burping out the vent.
I would like to hear how others fill their tanks without dumping fuel into the water.

 

[Scuffy]

We don't seem to have a fuel filling issue on our R-27. We did add a fuel vent line whistle that whistles as you add fuel and when it stops whistling you stop adding fuel. Works like a champ. Bought I from Defender about 40 bucks. Just cut the fuel vent line and add the inline whistle with a hose clamp on either end. It definitely gets the attention of the fuel jockeys. I think our fuel vent line is 5/8" inside diameter.

 

[Glen]

To clarify my earlier comment:

the vent is located on the starboard side at the aft end of the tank (at least it is on my 2015 R-25SC)

I was referring to the location of the vent fitting on the fuel tank. If the boat is loaded so that it is listing to starboard and/or if the stern is low, fuel can block the vent fitting located on the tank. I've verified this blockage on my tug when it was loaded so that the stern was low and the fuel tank was not full by removing the fuel cap and blowing into the actual vent (located on the stern), the vent line was blocked by fuel until the air I was blowing into the vent moved the fuel back into the tank, than I could hear bubbles in the tank. When I stopped applying air pressure to the vent, fuel refilled the lower section of the vent line (i.e.the section of vent line attached to the tank).

 

[DBBRanger]

Here's a solution that works for the older R25's with the vent on the starboard side and the fill at the stern. We have a device similar to this (nicely given to us by Rich on Roam) that works by suction cups similar to Rick&Sue's solution above.

http://www.tgmmarine.com/nospills/pages/products.html

 

[knotflying]

Maybe the easy answer is two fold, add the vent whistle and set your tank capacity on the garmin to 75 gallons.

 

[nzfisher]

I have this problem and the fill guys now bring me 3 diapers with each fill up. I find that the commercial style fill nozzles with the large diameter pipes exacerbate the problem. The automobile style fill up nozzles make it much easier to fill the tank with minimal blow back so obviously there is some kind of pressure issue going on. I consider this a flaw in the boat and have learned to live with it as I have made numerous pointless attempts to correct the problem.

 

[Brian B]

The high speed diesel nozzles are a definite problem. I was fueling with one of those at a Fl marina and the dock attendant asked me if I wanted him to lower the pressure. Of course I said yes and never knew that could be done at the pump.
Another Marina told me that the red dye that is added to marine diesel makes it foam up thus causing the back ups. This person related the difference in filling a 5 gal container with marine and non marine diesel.

 

[Sweet_Pea]

If the boat is loaded so that it is listing to starboard and/or if the stern is low, fuel can block the vent fitting located on the tank.

Listing and/or stern weight may have something to do with your experiences. We have a 2013 R-25SC and have not noticed this issue, unless the fuel tank is within a gallon or two of full when we're refueling. We've just learned to slow down for the last few gallons.

However, we have a composting head. Since our black water tank was never used, we were able to put a Y-valve on the fresh water line and repurposed the black water tank for auxiliary fresh water. Generally, this stern tank is empty, so we don't have the additional weight. Should mention, though, that we do have a 47 lb dinghy on the stern.