Gasoline smell in R27 OB

[brofish17]

I've occasionally smelled gasoline when entering the cabin, but it dissipates quickly and is never noticeable while we're using the boat. Yesterday I went to the marina and entered the cabin and the gasoline smell was overwhelming. Again, it dissipated quickly, but now I'm really concerned. I opened the center cockpit hatch and the smell is very strong there initially. I closed it for 10 minutes then checked again and the smell returns. There's less than 40 gallons in the tank, which is is rare for me. How do I go about isolating and resolving the issue?

 

[Submariner]

I think you have a gas leak.

I only smell gas when I’m changing the fuel filter or at the fuel dock when fueling.

Check your fuel filter in the center cockpit lazarette. Make sure it’s on tight and not leaking.


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[Matty]

Try using a cup to get some water from the bilge area. When away from the boat take a sniff and see if you smell gas. If you do it would appear you have a loose connection somewhere as opposed to gasoline vapor escaping the tank. You might try placing paper towel around the gas line connections starting from the tank and working back to the filter. Recheck several hours later to see if any gas accumulated.

I had an issue when I filled the tank up to the top and gas leaked from the connections on top of the tank but that does not seem to be your issue.

Do you have a generator installed? Many more connections to check if you do.





Do you have a generator?

 

[GaylesFaerie]

Until you find and fix the leak you may want to somehow vent the engine compartment and the cabin to prevent an explosive concentration of fumes collecting in those areas. GF

 

[brofish17]

Thanks for the replies. I appreciate the input and have taken the actions suggested. Here's the current status:

I returned to the boat yesterday. I had left it for 2 days with one cabin roof hatch open and the center lazarette propped open just 1/2 inch. The gas smell was nominal in the cabin. I might not have smelled it at all if I wasn't looking for it. Different story in the lazarette. Still a strong odor (less due to the part-open lazarette cover, but still there.) Strongest at the fwd-port side of the compartment, right next to the gas tank. There's no generator, so the plumbing is pretty simple. No evidence of a leak from the large gas filter/separator, the lines or along the filler hose. Also no gas smell emanating from the bilge water. I'll recheck everything after filling the tank and getting underway today to further rule out an actual fluid leak.

All the fittings are on top of the tank and the lines are not under pressure by design (fuel is "sucked" out of the tank and through the filter by the low-pressure pump in the engine). If this is a leak of some sort at one of the tank fittings, how would you identify which one? It could also be in the area of the charcoal vent filter; how would one figure that out?

 

[Levitation]

Boats with inboard gas tanks scare the gizzard out of me. Years back we were at the Flats in Cleveland with our daughter and SIL and dined on a restaurant patio right at the dock side. There was an immaculate wood cabin cruiser less than 30 feet from us at the dock. The 4 of us commented over how much better it looked than the modern fiberglass boats. As we were standing up and gathering shopping bags and such, a couple was seated at the table next to us (2 feet away). On the way out we spent a few minutes (less than five) window shopping at the Galleria, then went to the parking lot and drove out. As we turned onto the main street we heard sirens and EMS went rushing into the parking lot. As we got on the expressway we could see black smoke rising from the flats.

When we got home our daughter had left a message that the cabin cruiser exploded and blew burning gasoline onto the dock and restaurant patio. The couple seated next to us were engulfed. One died and the other was deformed for life. Since that time I have never knowingly set foot on a gas powered inboard. After reading this thread I will have to add gas powered, period, to that rule.

 

[Matty]

If the occasional boat fire frightens you enough to stay off gasoline boats you might not want to read this article discussing diesel and gas fires. You might not ever go boating again.
https://www.presleyandpresley.com/legal ... at-to-boa/

Most of the time a fire is caused by user error or poor maintenance.

Always ventilate. Would be nice to know if they determined the cause or lack of preventative measures of the fire you mention. Always willing to learn.

 

[Catch22]

Brofish.....the smell of fuel in an enclosed area...either cabin or below deck without a dedicated exhaust blower is of significant concern. You do not indicate that you have enlisted the help of a qualified surveyor or a Ranger Dealer......that would be my immediate move......

 

[Kilbella27ob]

Wondered if you ever figured out where the smell of gasoline came from on the R27 OB and if so what the cause was.

 

[brofish17]

Finally an update - sorry it took so long.

I bought a cheap combustible gas detector, pinched closed the charcoal vent hose, and lightly pressurized the tank. The sniffer went off at the tank fittings - some just barely but I found the big issue at the 4" access hatch atop the tank. I pulled the lid and discovered the lip of the ply tank was deformed more than the 1/16" rubber seal could accommodate.

Since I (a) have no idea how anyone could replace the tank, and (b) could not modify the poly opening, I bought some gasket sealant (Permatex 80019 Aviation Form-A-Gasket No. 3) and gooped up every connection I could find.

This solved the problem, but now I'm paranoid after you guys scared the heck out of me with horror stories. I've added a blower to the compartment, but to be truly effective it would need to run all the time to keep fumes out of the cabin. Maybe I can find a 12v timer that would let it run 5 minutes every hour or something - ideas welcome!

 

[Catch22]

Glad your Permatex sealant is working. You might want to try a two prong solution to your concern of future fumes. Several boat supply houses carry gasoline fume detectors with alarms, both battery and hardwired. Using your fan upon boarding before startup like inboards do, and monitoring the rest of the time with the fume detector should provide some peace of mind.

 

[Mark_H]

Where did you install the blower and the exhaust vent for the blower?
Do you have any pictures?

I asked about having blowers installed when I ordered my 2022 R-27 OB.
But, Ranger said it was not required and did not seem interested in doing it.

I was asking because of an experience on my previous boat,
a Boston Whaler Conquest 255 with twin Optimax 200 outboards.
When a Vessel Safety Check was done, the inspector recommend that I have bilge blowers installed
even though the boat was outboard powered and did not have a generator.

 

[gregc]

I bought a cheap combustible gas detector, pinched closed the charcoal vent hose, and lightly pressurized the tank. The

Wouldn't the LP leak detector catch this?

I mean, it should catch all (??) combustible gas? I had it freak out over an MRE heater pack venting hydrogen in the cabin.

 

[CleverFox]

I have a 2020 R27-OB and have been experiencing strong gasoline smell in the cabin also when I leave it closed up for a day. I bought an inexpensive gas fume detector as well and worked my way all around the fuel tank and center cockpit lazarette. I was getting returns of about 40 parts per million around the large tank top opening like what I've read here but what really surprised me was that the 1.5" fill hose Is reading between 500 and 600 parts per million along the 2 slight bellies in the hose inside the center cockpit lazaret. The hose is an MPI 350-1120 transfer hose. I'm now thinking I should replace it with a new less permeable hose since it is by far the largest source of gas smell. Has anybody else experienced this?

 

[brofish17]

Hi All. Sorry I'm such an infrequent visitor. Here's a couple answers to the questions.

I installed a Seaflo Inline Bilge Blower Model: SFBB1-130-01. (Double the service life and 1/2 the noise of the usual Attwoods.) I glued a piece of poly decking to the exterior STB side of the propane compartment, then screwed it in place. Vented directly aft; 3" vent with grill - can barely see it. Yes, water might splash in, so I used enough vent hose to create a p-trap and poked a little hole at the bottom so it can drip into the bilge. Yes, that's less efficient, but the compromise works and I have plenty of airflow. If you're worried about a wave, note that it's above the height of the aft door, so... I bought a DC timer to see if I could schedule a periodic exhaust, but so far no luck getting it to work. As recommended above, I run the blower as soon as IU get on the boat, but there's really no smell any longer.

I used to get calls from the dock saying my propane alarm was sounding. It would shut off after a few minutes with the open door. That hasn't hapened since resealing all the fuel connections.

My cheapo detector didn't give readings, just noise like a geiger counter. I also got hits along the filler line. I read somewhere that all flexible fuel lines have some amount of vapor leak. Not sure what to do with that info.

Finally, this whole issue has left me wondering why my Webasto heater and the windshield blower fans draw air from the bilge area. Does that seem right to you?

DF

 

[CleverFox]

Thanks Brofish17 for your postings and recent reply. They have been very helpful to me!

I changed out the fuel fill hose on my boat this past weekend with a Shields A2 Series 355 Fire-Acol Fuel Fill & Vent Hose. This hose is marketed as being resistant to ethanol and so I'm hoping for better/longer protection against permeability.

I used some 4" corner brackets to space the new hose away from the side wall and hatch support piston inside the lazarette which allowed me to raise the aft portion (immediately adjacent the lower piston attachment point) of the hose by roughly 2" thereby ensuring a more consistent fall from the fill port all the way to the tank. This should better prevent fuel from standing in the hose after filling.

I was pleased to find a factory installed, simple backflow prevention device inside the hose at the fuel tank connection that I was able to re-use in the new hose which further allays any fears of premature hose deterioration by preventing fuel from backflushing under acceleration.

End result of project = Zero PPM Gasoline Fumes in the Bilge!!

Although not required, I like the idea of using a blower to ventilate the bilge prior to startup as well and so have ordered the blower that you specified for installation in my boat.

 

[Submariner]

End result of project = Zero PPM Gasoline Fumes in the Bilge!!

This is outstanding to read!!

 

[BB marine]

I have been following this thread and didn't comment on it at first because I didn't want the idea to be the cause of the fumes is lack of ventilation. Normally the cause of the fumes is a leak or spill. The reason for the ventilation is to help remove the dangerous fumes and to maintain a stabile environment in the bilge and machinery compartments in a boat. Sealed bulkheads between the fuel tank and living areas in the boat are required by the USCG and ABYC recommendations. There should never be a area for fuel to leak in living quarters or to vent to them because of sealed compartments and bulkheads. This seems to be a weak area in the Fluid Motion build. Another weak area is the lack of ventilation. The Blowers will help but are required to be operating in order to remove all the fumes and odors. Most boat manufactures for safety reasons while not required in all cases install a true marine ventilation system with passive intake and exhaust ventilation. This allows air to enter the bilge areas from exterior areas of the boat and to allow air to circulate and exhaust out. This has been a common build process in boats for years. Outboard, Stern drive, inboard Gas and inboard Deisel. The ventilation systems normally include a mechanical source. ( A ventilation Blower) The ventilation system does more than remove harmful odors. It helps to reduce condensation, reduces mold and helps keep the below deck areas drier. This is done by stabilizing the air temperature and reducing the temperature differential between the outside ambient and inside compartment temperatures. In my thinking it is a common practice in boat building to install a ventilation system. The key component is safety. Should you have a fuel leak in a boat? No ! Does it happen ? It can ! If it does and there is no way for the fumes to release to atmosphere where do they go? They can migrate into living areas lingering in low areas of the boat. An ignition source other than an engine could be present. Many think if there isn't a engine present there can't be an ignition source ???

When I purchased my Cutwater and found that there was no ventilation system installed I was told by the manufacture. You don't need it. We have built many boats without issue and it is not required because it is a Deisel powered boat. USCG and ABYC does not state it is a requirement. Well they do state it is recommended to maintain compartment temperatures but yes not a requirement. What about safety factor? Propane stoves ? Electrical devises operating in machinery compartments. No Ventilation to help reduce moisture and odors below the decks? Not a requirement but surely a good idea.

Now Fluid Motion is building gas powered boats with many items that could introduce an ignition source but not an engine. There is no requirement to install and engineer a good ventilation system in a Gas powered boat with an outboard??? Well this thread tells you why there should be one. If there is Gas in a boat and it is not kept contained, it leaks. The Vapor density of Gas is 3 to 4 which means it is heavier than air and will lay in the lower areas of the bilge. The vapor temperature of gasoline is -40F so it will turn to vapor when released in the atmosphere. How do you get rid of theses fumes in the event of a gas leak in a boat with no ventilation ? You don't that is why ventilation in a boat is so important. That is also why there was a Gasoline smell that lingered in the R27 with a distorted fuel tank. The ventilation would not stop the leak or remove all the fumes but it could help lower The LEL (Lower explosive Level) to lessen the chances of an explosion if there was an ignition source.

Passive ventilation, mechanical ventilation and boat owner ventilation ( taking the time to open deck hatches and use your nose to inspect for fumes , moisture and elevated compartment temperatures) are all good ways to keep below deck areas ventilated.

This thread started by brofish 17 is a good reminder to find a way to ventilate a boat with no ventilation. Even if it is just opening compartments periodically and using your nose. On a sunny day open them up and leave them open for a while. this will help reduce odor and moisture. My comments are not to say Fluid motion is wrong in their build process. The comments are my opinion on the safety of ventilation even if it is not required by the builder. As a boat owner don't over look it because it is not there.
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[Ataman]

My 2020 R27 LE came with a Westerbeke gas genset and a blower installed. This provides me with both thrills (nonstop AC in summer on the Potomac!) and chills (I do not wish to blow up).

I am therefore considering adding a Xintex fume detection system with automatic blower control to my winter project list. Has anyone had experiences with the device or the install? https://www.fireboy-xintex.com/wp-conte ... -REV-D.pdf

In addition to general peace-of-mind, I am wondering if the automatic function could make it safe to run the gen without the blower on when at anchor and running aircon. Both on at the same time can be quite a racket. Any thoughts?


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