General Comparison handling the bad stuff

[NEDBETTY]

This is my first Tug always had either open fisherman or cuddy style boats.

I have a 2014 CB 31 would those that know far more then me say that the Ranger Hull on our boat is more seaworth if caught in 6 to 8 seas the my past few 31' Grady White and Whaler boats.

And I am not really speaking of smooth ride I am asking for opinions from other veteran tugs folks that had been caught (Not by choice) in some bad weather so given side by side boats what would handle the worst condition and keep you safe?

In our area we see old beat Lobsta boats that go as far as the gulf stream, not me but we can have weather turn sour very quickly so looking for a bit of an education and confidence that will come in time I am sure.

Thanks!!

 

[Chimo]

You have asked a question that entails a myriad of variables and therefore there will be a high number of answers.

What sea conditions are you talking about? Are you thinking swell, breaking wind waves on top of swell or?? [Just as a comment we are all inclined to overestimate wave height.] What are the wind conditions? How is your boat loaded? Are your tanks full or partially full? What about other gear? Are things likely to move in the boat and allow a shift in centre of gravity? Do you maintain power or are you adrift? These are the sort of questions that apply to any boat under consideration but you asked about a somewhat specific comparison.

One clear answer is that assuming you can stay on the boat the Boston Whaler has one clear advantage, it won't sink, even if swamped. The BW and GW are truly self bailing. I am not familiar with the CW. There's an advantage. Hull design is a big factor because it affects centre of buoyancy as the boat rolls and therefore metacentric height. Maybe a CW advantage there. How about hull integrity? Will the windows break? [Remember those big sport fisherman boats with no forward windows? That's for a reason.

Short answer. I used to enjoy (recklessly) taking the 23 BW off the top of a high chop and occasionally going airborne. No way I would, or could, do it in our RT 25.

An interesting question and you are likley to get a lot of opinions.

 

[dclagett]

I agree with what Chimo wrote. In addition the replies you get will be very subjective based on the persons skill and comfort level in handling rough seas (what ever that means) which may or may not be equivalent to your’s.

Not having a CB 31, but having a boat built by FM, I am very pleased with the handling of my RT25. My only criticisms are it is a very wet boat and it keeps me busy in following seas.

The best way to find out about your boat and gain experience is to slowly take on rougher conditions until you have had enough.

Good luck

 

[Ken W]

For what it’s worth, my wife and I recently crossed the Strait of Juan de Fuca (Cattle Pass to Port Angeles) in our R31S when we really shouldn’t have. Four hours bad to worse, four foot seas on a four second period quartering on the bow. Gale warning went up during the crossing. I feel qualified to say that the boat can withstand much more than the occupants.

 

[FWTMD]

I agree with Chimo and the others.

Quite a while ago I was pursuing the question of how well the large cockpits would drain water in the (unlikely) event it took blue water in from a following sea.

So it was just this week I read a piece about a guy who cruised around the world in a coastal cruiser that wasn't designed for long distance blue water passages. One of the things he did was rig something to hold the door open from the cockpit to swim platform in passages, so that if water did come across the stern in a storm it would quickly clear.

Boats CAN be made to do many things they were not designed to do.

It quickly becomes a question about why you would?

Knowing there is a margin of personal safety is important. But pushing limits just isn't fun.

Too often I see the phase "the boat can handle more than the owner." That seems like its saying "this boat beat the stuffing out of me." Just don't go there.

But yeah, on the water everyone gets surprised sooner or later. Live to tell the tale and regret it.

 

[Rocky Lou]

I am interested in this thread since I mainly boat offshore and can get caught in large swells, up to 15 ft. and confused seas. Of course, these days that's easier to avoid than when I was younger and there was only basic NOAA information rather than detailed sites like windy.com or others that give currents and tides for pinpoint locations.

I think there are a number of facts that can be shared about FM boats compared to others. Notably, the drainage is not nearly as effective as GW boats with big scuppers. After reading comments here, I removed some of the drain screens that caused drains under deck to be blocked and useless. CW has no exposed drains in the cockpit area and water has to run under deck to get to these drains. Inside the Pilothouse, the hatch had no drain at all, so I added one. Apparently, having a backwash that came over the aft section and into the cockpit was not a concern for designers, but, a concern for me having taken those sorts of waves before.

A big issue for me is how stern heavy my CW is (I've been told that all CWs are stern heavy). I've ordered new 4 blade props to experiment with and I'm considering Bennett drop fins for my trim tabs to improve their performance. My boat performs better in all sea conditions when I can get the stern raised.

FM boats are also more narrow beam than GW, so they can be trailered.

 

[Chimo]

Rocky Lou,

I am not familiar with the CW302 but would ask how your fore/aft balance is affected by tanks? Do you achieve a mor bow down attitude with a full water tank, for example.

What’s the thinking behind the 4 blade prop?

 

[knotflying]

Here is my observation: If you have to ask, don't do it. Granted we can all get caught in unexpected conditions, but regardless of what they are or how seaworthy your boat may be you will have to deal with it at the time. There is plenty of weather info available and it is much more accurate than in the past. The boats can usually take more than the passengers. Waves abeam would be the worst ride and quartering following seas most dangerous. All of the inboards have a low center of gravity so they are very difficult to roll. The 31 for its length has a fairly narrow beam and will be more susceptible to rocking and rolling. I would say, know your personal limits and if there is any doubt that they may be exceeded go out on another day.

 

[Rocky Lou]

Rocky Lou,

I am not familiar with the CW302 but would ask how your fore/aft balance is affected by tanks? Do you achieve a mor bow down attitude with a full water tank, for example.

What’s the thinking behind the 4 blade prop?

Hi Chimo,
I haven't noticed a lot of difference based on fuel or water load, but, I keep tanks pretty full all the time. There are two 150g tanks and I wish I could say I know exactly where both are located and connected but there is still no owners manual for a C302 or C32. Clearly, the two 300hp outboards add a lot of weight. There is an R28OB in my harbor and he advises that he has no trouble getting and staying on plane.

FM suggested to me to consider larger tabs or a 4 blade prop and recommended Power Tech. My plan is now:
- I ordered PowerTech OFS 4R 17 PCL 200, OFS 4L I discussed in detail the concern about a stern heavy boat and PowerTech said this prop has lift but better grip than the others, SCE4 and OSS, and that is what they would start with for my conditions, i.e. rough offshore waters. If I need to exchange, their second choice would be OSS.
- If props fix performance, I’m done. If not, I’ll order the Drop Fins referenced below (from Bennett):

Your situation requires more trim tab lift capability, but you have limited mounting area to work with on your vessel to improve your situation. For this reason, we offer a product that is called 3” Drop Fin Add-ons (DF12, $32.64 USD set), which is an addition that can be added to a currently installed 12” Chord (fore-to-aft) trim tab to increase its performance by channeling the water flow under the tab and holding it there to produce the maximum lift capable of a given size trim tab. They are 3” fins that angle 90 degrees down on the sides, there by not allowing the water flow to “escape” and keeping it under the tab for the full length. You attach them to your current trim tabs by drilling holes (16 TOT, 8 per trim plane) and using stainless steel machine screws & locknuts (not included). You can Special Order them from any of your local marine dealers, catalog &/or Internet retailers – area marine distributor. Please use our “WHERE TO BUY” webpage (https://bennetttrimtabs.com/find-a-dealer/) to locate someone in your area that will be able to help you with your Special Order (we are NOT setup for direct sales of our products)!

~Paul

 

[Karll]

Thanks for all the comments as I sold my 24’ SeaSport Explorer which was a great boat in rough weather as I made many crossings in moderate to rough water in Queen Charlotte Sound. It did not occur to me that not having an open drain would be something to consider while it weather you did not plan on. On another note if rough weather is on the way it was a lot faster in my SeaSport to get to a destination before the storm than it is with my R29.

 

[BB marine]

Rangers and Cutwaters are coastal cruises. All the comforts of home but not Blue Water boats. They will get you home if you get caught in moderate sea's but it is not going to be comfortable and things may get thrown around a bit. You can't compare a Grady White or a Boston Whaler (Blue water Boats) to a Ranger Tug. Different use, different comfort level, different handling. We were in 2' to 3's and getting tossed around at 12kts and a 24' DC Robalo flew by us at an easy 35kt clip having a blast. This bothered me thinking this thing handles terrible (C26). But then when we finally get to a marina or anchorage who is more comfortable now. I have rethought the Cutwaters use. It is not a rough water boat it is a comfortable coastal cruiser. 2' or less doable, 3' is ok but not comfortable, 4' is hang on, 5' can't wait to get out of this it sucks, 6' Help! I would not want to be in 6' to 8' Sea's in any coastal cruiser 45' or less. Big swells ok but not wave's. Just my opinion!

What’s the thinking behind the 4 blade prop?

Many 4 blade props are designed to add stern lift and help hold the boat on plane. The drop fins will also help with this. There are many Rangers and Cutwaters that have added theses to help with stern lift. I have added a few threads on Tugnuts about my experience with the drop fins all positive.

 

[NEDBETTY]

Thanks everyone...