Genset fuel issue

[DBBRanger]

My Mase 2.5 genset seemed to work OK at my seatrial, but during her maiden voyage, it acted up. The first time I started it, it ran very rough and shut down after 30 sec with a code e85. That means the geneator didn't get up to speed - not surprising since it was running badly. The second time I started it, it seemed to run good and cleared out the "cobwebs" nicely. However, when I put a load on it, the exhaust water immediately got very black - no smoke to speak of but black water only. Removing the load returned the water to clear. Each time I put a load on, the condition reappeared. The engine didn't seem to be running badly, just black water immediately upon the load.

Kenny put me in touch with the Mase rep and he suggested the filter on the genset may need cleaning. I had previously replaced the Racor. So today, I tackled the genset filter replacement. I was able to get the supply hose off, but could not see the little filter cartridge the manual shows so I removed the entire pump so I could get a look at it. I couldn't find the filter. From the manual, it looks like it just slips out of the filter, but there wasn't anything there. I'm quite sure it did not fall out when I took the line off. I assume it should look lke the filters in small gas engines - a cylindrical metal sintered thing. I probed the supply line with a wire to see if it was there, but no go.

Does anyone have experience with this? Another thread seemed to say that maybe my problem is loose clamps on the supply line. That seems possible since there was very little fuel in the line when I took it off. I'll check that. Is black water an indication it's not getting enough fuel? But what about that filter?

Any words of wisdom?

Thanks,

Doug

 

[Rich]

Sorry to hear you are fighting the Genset.
When you mention Putting on a load how much load are you putting on at once? I have to really limit what i try to run on the Genset. for example if i am running the A/C that is about all i can run. I leave my Refrigerator on DC( by turning off the Regrigerator 110 v breaker. Some of the items that draw heavy amps like the stove, water heater microwave(if insalled) are "one at the time items"
I sadly have a lot of experiance with failures on the 2.5 feel free to give me a call if you wish to discuss trouble shooting the Genset 228 623 2803. For the record I finally changed mine out for the 2.7 mase and a 3kw inverter and underway ac power has been a lot more reliable for us.

Rich
Rt Tug R 25 classic #69

 

[Ken Boyd]

I am not sure a Mase 2.5 has an internal fuel filter. I do not see it referenced in any of the documentation that I have. If you find one, appreciate it if your would post a follow up.

I looked in my Yanmar LV48 Shop manual (this is the engine that powers the Mase 2.5) and it listed the following possibilities in the trouble shooting section for poor engine performance with black exhaust smoke.

- Blocked air inlet or passages.

- Damaged Cooling Fan.

- Incorrect Diesel Fuel.

- Clogged Exhaust Pipe.

- Uneven Injection Volume from Fuel Injection Pump.

- Excessive Fuel Injection Volume.

- Poor Spray Pattern from Fuel Injection Nozzle.

- Engine used at High Altitude.

The Mase rep may have been referring to the air filter when you spoke to him since if it is clogged it will produce the symptoms you are experiencing. The E-85 error code is "Generator Overload". Make sure all of the AC load breakers are turned off when you start the generator and then switch the main generator breaker on. Gradually bring on the AC load to see how the generator behaves. Suspect if the water heater and the Air Conditioner are on at the same time it will overload the generator.

Hope this helps.

 

[DBBRanger]

Ken,

Thanks for the diagnostic help.

My manual does indeed show a filter on the bottom of the fuel pump - it looks like a short cylinder, the same diameter as the ID of the hose. I will send a pic by PM. But in talking with Rich on RT Tug, he also does not have one and said he believes there never was one. So I guess that comment from the rep did not help my cause!

My manual shows that the E85 code is generator not up to speed. Not sure why there are differences in the explanation of the codes.

I also am confused about black water versus black smoke. Mine shows black WATER immediately upon load, not black SMOKE. I'm not sure if that's significant - I guess the smoke gets washed by the water and transfers the black soot from the gas to the water??

In any case, I think Rich is onto something in terms of the genset being overloaded. I had the Refer, battery charger and the A/C all on at the same time. Maybe that was an overload. I will have to try less of a load next time I'm out.

Thanks for the help.

Doug

 

[Ken Boyd]

see next

 

[Ken Boyd]

Doug,

I suspect the black exhaust water you are seeing is just a consequence of black smoke from the engine exhaust mixing with the cooling water. The Mase 2.5 engine is actually air cooled so the exhaust gasses from the engine are the only thing coming into contact with the cooling water coming out of the exhaust port.

Ken

 

[wefings]

- Engine used at High Altitude.
Ridgeway Co.= 6985 Ft elevation
Hmmmmmm
Marc

 

[knotflying]

Marc could be onto something. You may have to lean the mixture because of the high altitude.

 

[workingdogs]

Hi all ,
At that altitude , your oxygen is much less and therefore you fuel mixture is approaching twice as rich as would be ideal .
This may not be " The" problem but it is for sure a problem . Know too when the adjustment is made you will be making 80% power at best .

 

[DBBRanger]

Thanks for the input. The high altitude thing crossed my mind since I had to put a jumper in the Wallas stove for it to operate properly at altitude.

Can someone get me started on how to adjust the Mase for high altitude? It looks like the main engine doesn't need it since it has a turbo.

By the way, there was no fuel filter in the fuel pump when I took it apart (it was not fun taking the pump out to check where it had gone). Ken says he doesn't have one either.

Thanks again

Doug

 

[DBBRanger]

Well, my saga continues. I haven't been able to run the genset again to vary the loads on it to see how that effects the black water because I now have an air leak in the fuel line. To make a long story short, I did find a fuel leak that I think I caused by removing the fuel filter. I noticed that the bracket holding the filter in place was heavily corroded so I replaced it with a SST band and used the same rubber protector from the other bracket. In doing so, I think I disturbed the corrosion that had gotten onto the pump from the bracket, such that after a few uses of the pump, it started leaking fuel at the body until a strong stream came flowing out. So it turns out, the corrosion got to the body of the pump and corroded nearly through - it was a disaster waiting to happen. To make the pump more accessible, I remounted the pump outside the enclosure by buying a longer hose. That worked well for future removals.

I still have an air leak that seems to be coming from either the injector return line or the line to the injection pump. Can't figure that one out but I put an isolation valve in the genset line right at the Racor so that I can keep the air from getting into the main engine.

By the way, instructions came from the manufacturer with my new pump. A filter was included in the inlet side of the pump, but the instructions said to remove it for diesel applications. So there should be no internal filter in the inlet side of the pump unlike what some Mase manuals show.

Doug

 

[DBBRanger]

It's official - 2.5 Mase Generators do not like to operate at 7500' altitude!! I had the boat at Lake Powell where the altitude is 3600' and it worked like a champ. Even if I could adjust it for high altitude, I would have to set it back for lower altitude so I'm not going to mess with that. So problem solved - Marc at Wefings had it right!

As for the air leak, I finally realized that with removing the hoses from the pump, I had let air into the return line from the injector. I had to manually prime that hose. Once I did that - no more air.

Thanks to all for the help.

Doug