Genset problem

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RICH002

Active member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
38
Fluid Motion Model
C-248 C
Hull Identification Number
R69
Vessel Name
"RT TUG "
I have been having intermittent issues with my Genset (hull 69 110 yanmar) it will be fine and then the engine will start to run poorly it does not sound like it is overloaded ie slowing down till trip out on code E85. it sounds rough and just runs worse till it quits the code displayed is E80. I really dont think it is the Alternator portion but the engine itself. If anyone has experianced similar and fixed it i sure would appreciate some advice.

Rich
 
Most of my issues with my R25 have been related to loose hose clamps. My Genset ran poorly or not at all for a couple of weeks. I finally removed the small hose connector and found it full of air rather than fuel. The Genset is supposed to draw fuel uphill to purge any air from the fuel line. The connectors are located low port side of main engine. there are 2 sets of hoses & connections going up to Genset. One is fuel supply other is return. Because the Genset is located above the main engine, fuel tank and filters the fuel supply is more vunerable to sucking air into the supply line if a connection is loose. Most of my other hose clamps were good quality & S/S. However, the small Genset connector hose clamps were cheap and would not tighten very well. I replaced them with good clamps, tightened them and no problems since. I am a believer that these small issues that result in you learning more about the boat actually can be viewed as good. I canm fix those things with a little time. The hull is excellent & I love the Yanmar engine.

I also had loose hose clamps on AC condensate drain & water heater inlet and outlet hoses.
 
Thanks commander bill. i will check those clamps ( when the rain quits) I too had a lot of loose clamps in the water systems on the boat. I have never checked any of the fuel system clamps. It seems like what is going on to me the Genset definatley acts like it could be sucking air.
Like you said i also love my boat and the yanmar 110 it does all we ask of it.
Thanks again
Rich
 
Rich, I assume you have the Manual with the codes in it?



Charlie
 
I forgot to mention the manual which contains a good list of codes. However, when I had the issue with the fuel supply sucking air the Genset would often die & manual did not help. When Genset quit running it did not always leave the same code & this led to delaying my analysis of problem. No code led me to fuel problem. Sometimes I got the same code as you but other times I got different codes. Sometimes code meant damaged generator when my generator was OK. Fuel starvation causes Genset to slowdown and sputter but it continues to try to run poorly until something (complete loss of fuel or control logic) tells it to shutdown. I assume this was due to the control logic becoming confused while engine was still trying to run without a valid shutdown signal while the RPM was slowing down & generator putting out lower expected voltage/frequency. I think th ecodes are intended to tell you what caused the shutdown when a valid shutdown signal was generated. In this case the fuel starvation problem results in engine attempting to keep operating below rated speed & voltage.
 
I have the book with the codes, but as commander Bill said I'm pretty cofident it is a fuel issue causing the engine to run Poorly then causing a code indicating Genset failure, when it is really an engine failure. thanks for the reply I've got marc and charlie at wefings in the loop and they assure me the calvary is on the way I'll Post when the culprit is found.

Rich
 
I believe E80 is a fuel code. I would check the hoses and clamps as Bill had mentioned and then I would inpsect the fuel filter "racor." I have Wefings on the horn with MASE and they will give some input as well. If you need additional help please dont hesitate to call me on my cell Rich.
 
I will check the clamps and filter ( Racor ) when the rain stops. E80 is a no voltage code. I get this one if i cut the breaker off quickly enough. The other code I get is E85 "Generator overload" explained in the manual as less than 70% of nominal voltage for more than 15 seconds. I will get this one if i don't hear the engine running bad and let it trip out. I'll let ya'll know if clamps and a racor cleaning fix it.

thanks for the reply

Rich
 
I tightened up the clamps and cleaned the racor. I then ran the genset with the ac on for about an hour dockside It ran great. I was thinking it was fixed so i started the main and went for a ride, as soon as i cleared the channel and came up to speed (2800 rpm) the genset started to run bad and shut down. I did this a couple of more times and have found at low speeds on the main no problem. come up to speed and the genset starts to run bad it acts like it is running out of fuel. Talking with Wefings on my cell they have help coming on friday. I'll post the "cure " after the tech fixes it.

Rich
 
Did you replace the Racor filter element (Ranger installs a 30 micron filter to keep the fuel flow acceptable with such a small filter)? A slightly clogged element will give you fuel starvation with both the main engine and generator running. The main engine probably has a much stronger fuel pump that the Mase generator. A vacuum meter would probably indicate that you are starting to create minus pressure in the fuel feed line after the fuel filter. I suggest that you think about installing a Racor 500MA filter assembly with a 2 or 10 micron element, to feed the Yanmar and let the little racor feed the generator.
Henry
 
Although I had thought your problem was due to "sucking air". Both possible problems (sucking air & clogged filter) coould show up on GENSET due to multiple reasons. As stated above the Genset has a much less powerful fuel pump. But also the main engine fuel pump is below the level of the fuel supply system & does not have to lift the fuel. The GENSET fuel pump must both lift then pump fuel. That could result in the main engine pump stealing the fuel while operating both. However, if the filter was partially clogged I would think the WOT performance of the main engine would show that weither or not the GENSET were operating.

One other thing to do. After you attempt to operate the GENSET after it dies disconnect the small fuel supply (not return) line connector on port side between the main engine and GENSET. I believe if the problem is a clogged filter then the line will still be full of fuel. If sucking air is problem you will have much air in line and no fuel will drain out as in my case. That is how I finally decided what my problems was. By the way I had tightened the hose clamps 3 separate times and ran AC on GENSET for at least an hour each time thinking I had fixed problem only to have same problem when I got underway with main engine. It was only after I replaced those small poor quality clamps with better clamps (double clamps on each side of connector) that I fixed problem. The main engine vibration may have loosened the clamps. The original small clamps I removed were not S/S and of lessor quality than other clamps found on my R25.
 
Henry and Commander Bill,
Thanks for the input I am convinced it is running out of fuel and i will be insalling another Racor to feed the genset on Friday. For Henry why the different model Racor? I was thinking of using the same type as is already installed.

Rich
 
The 500MA feeds the main propulsion engine and the original Racor filter now only feeds the generator. If you check the fuel flow for both engines, the original filter that was installed is too small for the Cummins QSD as they recommended installing a Racor 500 series filter. The attached photo shows the original filter with the pass through connection feeding the 500MA.
Henry
 
Henry,
I have been planing to add a second filter like you did. I have a Yanmar rather than Cummings. I would like to keep a single spare filter element that will work as a repalcement for either filter. Do you think the original design, modified with more restrictive 2 micron filter element, with separate GENSET & main engine filters would work with the Yanmar?
If I keep the original filter for GENSET and use a different filter design for Main engine I would have to carry separate spares.
 
Henry,
Thanks I have the 110 yanmar. the Racor model 110a is what is installed on my boat. It is supposed to be a 15 gph filter with a 10 micron element. A 2 micron element is available as well, do you think that one has enough capacity for the 110? if not than the 500 is what i will do.
Thanks
Rich
 
If you want to use only one filter assembly for both the generator and propulsion engine, I would toss the dinky Racor 110A and replace it with a Racor 500MA with a 2 micron element to stop any fuel contaminates from flowing through to the more costly engine filter. Changing a 500MA filter is very simple and takes less than a minute. The filters for the 500MA are very inexpensive and are available everywhere as the 500 series filter is utilized in numerous applications. Another plus for the 500MA is that you can see what kind of contaminants are on the filter element and if it needs replacement, you can't do that with the 110A canister element. Please note that the hose fittings for the 500MA are not NPT taper threads, they are NPSC straight coupling threads. Suggest you order the fittings from your Racor supplier.
Henry
 
Thanks,
Your experiance really shows I highly appreciate the help.
Rich
 
PS: If there is not one already installed, install a fuel shut off valve between the tank and the Racor 110A or 500MA filter to stop any fuel flow in either direction while changing a filter. Lastly, double clamp all fuel line hose connections!
Henry
 
No doubt,
There was not a shut off valve but there are now! I went with another 110a and it has cleared up the problem. I chose this way so i only have to carry one type of spare element onboard. I am going to run the 10 micron for a few weeks and then switch to the 2 micron elements. I really appreciate Yall's help with this as the intermittent shut down on the genset was getting really old!

Rich
 
Yanmar requires a 30 micron filter to be used on their engine. Anything smaller will not let that engine perform properly. Hope this helps!

Rich sorry I haven't been more help on this issue as I have been traveling but now am back. Dont hesitate to call me on my cell.!
 
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