Getting ready to buy the R-25

[baz]

😀
Today my wife, son and I joined Jeff from Ranger Tugs on a R-25 for a short sea trial on Lake Washington, WA. This was kinda our last review of the Ranger Tug models to make decision to buy. Well, having seen the R-21, R-25 and R-29 up close and actually seeing them being built/assembled in the Kent and Monroe factories we've settled on the R-25 as our best choice. We were impressed with all three models. The factory folks and Jeff were/are a delight to chat with and I have nothing but good words to say with my experiences with all the Ranger Tug employees I've met over the past few weeks. They are an excellent crowd and do their company very proud.

Well, where to start with questions and the like...

Let me start with one or two simple ones 😉

We have two Wired Hair Fox Terriers (16 and 18 lbs in weight) and of course they will be R-Mateys on our R-25 boat. 🙂 What are peoples advice about having dogs onboard and should they have life jackets and can one find them to buy, and if not, any guides on how best to construct one? What about the toilet duties etc?

The head cabin contains a shower, right? Sooooo, assuming a few minutes of shower time just how many showers can one get without sacrificing the fresh water for cooking etc. It would seem to me that one cannot take too many. 😉

Thanks in advance and I'm looking forward to participating in these forums.

Regards... Barry

 

[j&lgray]

Hi Barry,
You will find the tug wonderful and this group of owners a delight to listen to and to learn from. I cannot speak about having dogs on board but I can speak about the shower. With 30 gallons of water, you have lots of possibilities if you can get water every four or five days. The limiting factor is the hot water, if you are not hooked up to shore power (120 volt) as the engine will heat the five gallon water heater and when it is gone that water gets cool.

The Laurie Ann took us for 90 days on a 1,600 mile river trip from Iowa to the Gulf of Mexico. We anchored out half the time. Taking a shower was different from that at home: get wet, turn off the water, soap up, and rinse off. We think we used about 2 gallons of water per shower that way. There was plenty of hot water but we also heated water on the stove to do dishes if necessary. Very efficient and quite effective and we never felt like we were being squeezed on comfort. We topped off the water tanks every 4 days. Life is good!

Keep your questions coming, there is a lot of experience and wisdom in Tugnuts.

 

[doke01]

We had two poodles, a little smaller then yours. We definitely have life jackets for them and bought them online (just do a Google search, I will ask my wife where we got ours if you want. I think West Marine also sells them.). They only really wore the lifejackets when we were using the dingy to bring them to shore. We also bought wee-pads (I think that is the brand name), just in case they needed to go and we couldn't get them to shore. You have to be a little patient to get them to use them but, once they do, it works out. While traveling we would keep them in a covered cage in the cockpit. At night, if it was to hot/cold or rainy, we would take down the table and put the cage where the table was. Otherwise they would sleep in the cockpit. It worked well. Make sure you have a boat hook. One of our dogs likes to fall in and there is a loop in the back of the life jacket that lets you hook them and pull them out of the water.

You will need a dingy if you are anchoring out. I can tell some stories about ferrying dogs to shore at 3AM in the middle of a thunder storm, but I won't bore you.

We have found that the water lasts 2-3 days. Then again we are more extravagant then some 😀

 

[rt11002003]

Dogs can drown. Life preservers are available from commercial sources. One can't depend on dogs to act responsibily; I had one who used to try to drink the water as we moved along. 🙂

On more than one occasion I've seen a dog go overboard. I've rescued one, a small one, maybe 15 to 20 pounds. It fell overboard, the owners were unaware of it. My boat had a low freeboard making the rescue fairly easy for me. Their freeboard was higher and they had a difficult time taking that little dog back aboard.

Overboard rescues are much more difficult than people imagine. I helped in an overboard rescue of a young woman several years ago. She weighed about 100 pounds and was dressed in foul weather gear, but no PFD. Her captain wasn't able to get her back to the boat (lack of boat handling skill for the conditions and not a good throwable to help retreive). I was operating a stake/chase boat about a mile away, re-setting a mark. By the time I saw the trouble and got there she was unable to help herself; she had used up all of her energy staying afloat. Even with my low freeboard, I couldn't get her on my boat by myself, too much dead weight and a danger of taking water over the side. Finally got her next to her boat, got into the water (I had my PFD) and between the two of us (her captain and I) got her aboard her boat. I didn't try to remain in my boat and attempt a rescue because of the danger of catching her between the two boats, both of which had unattended helms at that time.

Your dogs aren't heavy and it may appear that getting them back aboard isn't a major task. But, almost always a multitude of things go wrong when an emergency happens.

We would all have had an easier time if the lady had worn a PFD. It would have been even better if her captain had had better boat handling skills and had had and used a good throwable, such as a LifeSling.

Be prepared, safe and happy boating,

Gene

 

[baz]

Thanks much for the responses so far. 🙂 🙂

Another question that is related to boat moorage/storage.

I have a choice of salt water moorage and dry stack moorage. I'm wanting to figure out the average cost difference between these two. I'm told that having the boat sit in salt water will cost about $1500/year more than dry stack moorage.

The salt water moorage at my local marina for the R-25 is $184.11 per month.

The dry stack moorage at my local marina for the R-25 is $224.55 per month and this includes unlimited sling launches and retrievals.

Thus dry stack moorage would be $485.28 more than salt water moorage.

What do other think about this cost analysis -- that is, am I on target or not ? Do you agree that salt water moorage would cost some $1500 more than dry stack moorage. Thanks... 🙂

 

[CaptMac]

Hi Barry -

We cruise with our two Cavaliers (20#) on our R-25 - and only use the jackets when transporting in the dinghy in rough conditions. I did make canvas barriers that I put at the step in the cockpit to prevent them from exploring over the side.

The shower on our boat uses 1.1 gallons per minute. We typically shower ever day while cruising - get wet (1 minute), soap up (water off - I have a shutoff valve added in the shower hose) and rinse (maybe a little more than a minute) - total 2-3 gallons each. The water stays hot enough overnight (gets heated by the engine when you are running) to shower in the morning. For us, the 6 gallons of hot water is plenty (if we ran the engine recently)

Storage in the salt water takes its toll - bottom paint is a must, you'll go though zincs quicker, but it gives you a place to play on the boat without going anywhere. For me, the question would be which you would enjoy more...

Mac

 

[baz]

Island Ranger:

We are neighbors. 🙂 It seems that Port of Edmonds has covered slips available and I contacted Susan Wade there today. She will be getting back to me on Monday and I hope that I can 'slip' into one of their covered spots come July 15 when Jeff at Ranger Tugs said boat would be ready. After talking with Jeff today I'm convinced to keep the boat in the salt water at Port of Edmonds Marina and take advantage of their covered slip availability. Jeff pretty much mentioned all that you posted. Water slip will provide enjoyable dockside GTGs at a moments notice, the covered slip will provide boat with excellent protection from sun and weather and more than compensate for the extra moorage cost.

Bottom paint is spendy at first (around $1500), but Jeff indicated for about $500 per year the effects of salt water on the R-25 can be dealt with.

Thanks for that canvas cover advice for the cockpit step-ins. My Fox Terriers are very inquisitive and the female one can jump close to 6 vertical feet (I should rent her out to a circus 😉 )

Jeff is sending me a price quote tomorrow so if all looks good will get formal invoice early next week, place my deposit down to hold the boat and with a bit of luck have it under cover at the Port of Edmonds come mid July -- just in time for some real fun on the water during summer time.

Wife and me can't wait to cruise up to the San Juan islands and even over to Canada later this year.

Barry

 

[baz]

So here's my list of MY2010 R-25 options

1. Diesel (Wallas) Stove/Heater Upgrade
2. Garmin Nav Pkg system (Inc. Radar and Depth finder)
3. Sturdy anchor
4. Bimini top w/boot
5. Macerator Discharge with Y-Valve

I also understand the boat comes equipped with fenders, lines, life jackets, fire extinguisher -- boat ready to goto sea 😉

Given this boat will be used in and around the Pacific Northwest are there other options that I should consider ?

Maybe extra keys (read elsewhere in this forum that key blanks are hard to find)!

Oh.... can an Apple iPod be connected to the audio system (I sure hope so)

What about an Inverter to get 110v at times for charging things such as cell phones, computer laptop etc? I guess if there's a cigarette lighter socket on the boat somewhere that could be used to charge up a Cell phone and iPod for example.

Do Marinas in the PNW typically have WiFi hotspots for getting onto Internet so one can browse and pickup Email. Also, what about Cell phone coverage throughout the Puget Sound area -- are there any dead spots etc?

 

[Trinity]

We are located at the Port of Edmonds on E dock.
We like keeping our tug in the water and spending time on her at the dock. A great place to go in the evening.

There are at least 2 other ranger tug owners located there and a bunch of c-dory people.

If you have any questions about the Port, PM us. Susan is great to work with.

Nancy and Kerry

 

[baz]

Trinity: Geeeeesh, if I turn up then we would be 4, right? Hmmm, E dock is covered which is what I'm looking at come Monday if Susan lines things up for me for mid July. Fingers crossed. 🙂

 

[Trinity]

Last I looked, the spot next to us was empty. Who know?
We do, however, pay a little more for a wider slip. Don't like being inches away from the boat next to us............
See you in Edmonds!

 

[CaptMac]

The covered slip sounds like a great choice. I'm envious...

The only option you might also consider is an autopilot. It really depends on your cruising style, but if you encounter fog - or night time running, it is worth it. (I can't steer a straight line in limited visibility - it's tough!).

We also added full canvas for the cockpit. On extended trips, it adds a ton of storage room, in inclement weather, it lets you be "outside" while still protected. You can always add it later however...

Yes, we use a small inverter - 250 watts if I remember correctly - that plugs in either of the two cigarette lighter plugs.

Cell phones work pretty well down here on the water. They don't work so well up in northern Canadian waters. I don't know much about internet connectivity - maybe someone else can help answer..

Mac

 

[johnniethek]

I contacted San Juan Island Chamber of Commerce re: Internet access. It appears that it's piecemeal throughout the islands, but that you might be able to buy it.

There is a company called Broadband Express that sells wi-fi service at ten marinas via several packages, from $11/day to $99/month to $299/year. Here's a link: http://www.bbxpress.net/PageID/1/default.aspx

I talked with their technical support folks and they said the service is limited to the marinas and perhaps a few hundred yards out. It is not available throughout the rest of the islands.

But I would think economic development folks might look at that as an opportunity for the islands. If someone could put together an island-wide wi-fi service, it might be useful for economic-development purposes.

 

[baz]

The covered slip sounds like a great choice. I'm envious...

The only option you might also consider is an autopilot. It really depends on your cruising style, but if you encounter fog - or night time running, it is worth it. (I can't steer a straight line in limited visibility - it's tough!).

Hmmm - the autopilot. Yes, I've given this some thought and like the idea of having one, but cannot yet determine when and why I would want to use it. The aspect of finding out I would need it later on makes me wonder what the extra cost over and above factory installation would be for adding it later. I assume this device needs to be installed by a professional and that leads me to ask how is the installation done after having the boat for a while. Can it be installed at the slip or does the boat need taking back to factory. Any answers to these things would be very much appreciated.

We also added full canvas for the cockpit. On extended trips, it adds a ton of storage room, in inclement weather, it lets you be "outside" while still protected. You can always add it later however...

Yes, the full side clear screens. A spendy option at around $3200. This is another option I've struggled with and quite honestly I like the idea especially with my two dogs and possibly having small children onboard. It would seem this option would add some safety and peace of mind considering dogs and small children. Again, the question of extra cost for installing this later on vs. purchasing with boat at time of sale. This option presumably requires many small clips for its sealed attachment and possibly other things that attach to the boat as well. How is this all done with the boat in a water slip?

I like the idea of the side screens providing the extra covered/protected storage. I had not thought of that aspect/benefit. Thanks. 🙂

I talked at length about this option with Jeff at Ranger Tugs and somehow he's convinced me to pass it over mainly because of the storage it will required when the side screen is not wanted. I assume it's quite a chore to remove.

Yes, we use a small inverter - 250 watts if I remember correctly - that plugs in either of the two cigarette lighter plugs.

Hmmm, where are those cigarette lighter plugs? Are they located on the glove box bulkhead just under the audio system control box ?

When I was at the Ranger factory I was shown an inverter that was located in the transom area and was attached opposite the fuel tank. Is this a different option from the one you've described?

Cell phones work pretty well down here on the water. They don't work so well up in northern Canadian waters. I don't know much about internet connectivity - maybe someone else can help answer..
Mac

Thanks for the Cell coverage info. My daughter owns a 27' sail boat and she sailed across from Seattle to Kingston over the past Memorial weekend. She carried her Cell phone and we were able to communicate clearly.

In this day and age I'm surprised about the feedback here concerning the lack of WiFi hotspots. With the Apple iPhone's Safari and Cell coverage it will be possible to get onto the internet though -- although not quite as convenient using a WiFi enabled small laptop.

 

[baz]

We also added full canvas for the cockpit. On extended trips, it adds a ton of storage room, in inclement weather, it lets you be "outside" while still protected. You can always add it later however...

Mac

Can the clear screen sides (all three sides) be rolled up and out of the way ? Is there a zipped door on both sides for entry to cockpit ?

 

[captain's cat]

Hmmm - the autopilot. Yes, I've given this some thought and like the idea of having one, but cannot yet determine when and why I would want to use it. The aspect of finding out I would need it later on makes me wonder what the extra cost over and above factory installation would be for adding it later. I assume this device needs to be installed by a professional and that leads me to ask how is the installation done after having the boat for a while. Can it be installed at the slip or does the boat need taking back to factory.

The Raymarine S-1000 wireless is a simple installation that anyone can do given that you have SeaStar Hydraulic Steering which I believe the R-25 has. The kit comes with all the fittings, hoses, etc and the electrical hookup is just to 12V and to your NEMA 183 output from any GPS/chartplotter. I put one on my TC255 in about two hours pierside and it is great. If you've ever spent two hours, or more, sitting at the helm trying to hold a course in seas, constantly correcting, etc. you'll appreciate it. I can sit there and relax now, and even wander back to the cockpit. You still must maintain a lookout, because it will not avoid objects (boats/logs, etc). If you've got a chartplotter that can do waypoints, you can steer to one, or steer to wherever you put the cursor. Or you can input a whole track, many waypoints. When it gets to one, it buzzes and tells you and you have to push a button on the wireless remote to go on to the next one. I highly recommend it.

Charlie

 

[captd]

Barry,
Your getting fine advice here and probably don't need mine. The order for the Lucky Fin missed getting the auto pilot on it for one reason or another. To me it is the most important option on the table. It does a far better job of steering than I do. As Mac ( Island Ranger) mentioned It is indispensable in pitch black running. Wefing done the job after delivery and did a good job although it is not tuned in well enough to track. This fall maybe they can ajust it some more.

You will find the Ranger will be used for longer trips sooner or later and you will be so glad you had one installed. It is much easier to have it done at the factory during assembly. A better job can be done. When we cross the gulf stream it will stay on track and compensate for the 4 to 6 knot northerly flow. The helm can be a tedious spot to be in for hours a day. When going fishing you can rig your lines or make a head call on auto while keeping a eye out ahead from time to time.

One trip I made was several nights and it took a little getting use to the idea to run full steam ahead with out looking out the window at all. So black you could not see the wipers on the outside of the windows. You must learn to trust your instuments at those times.

Another time a 50 mile night run back in from fishing . The auto pilot did it all. Gps and radar next. Another boat on that trip got totally lost out in the pacific. That was a 24ft Tom Cat by the way. I caught him heading out by his red running lights heading out to sea instead of Rincon, Mexico. He use to be a C-Brat. He said his equipment quit all at once. It was all working fine the next day, he just paniced. If he would have used his compass and his auto pilot he would have been fine. In a panic situation a person will question his compass. Happens in the mountains or the plains as well.

I know I'm kind of rambling on here , but The decision on the auto pilot is an important one. Buy it , you will be glad you did.
captd
Ps: I have a tendency to steer in a circle when I am fishing.night or day. Auto pilot will keep me on course or even fish a preset pattern automaticly. figure eights, circles , zigzags. great stuff

 

[CaptMac]

Great questions all -

I have the S1G 6002 raymarine autopilot. It comes with a flux gate compass for heading info, but is a whole lot more complicated to install and is more expensive. Factory install is the way to go - lots of stuff to install. I do not have experience with the S1000, but in our "slow" boats, I do not like the idea of using the GPS (backward looking - where the boat has been) to determine where you are going (the direction the boat is pointed). I would put an autopilot on my must buy list..... but that is really determined by how you will use your boat.

I know they increased the price of the full enclosure a bunch. I think it is simple to add later - yes they add snaps to the boat all over the place, and yes it is a pain to stow. Linda made a bag for us to stow ours, made out of sumbrella, so we can through it up on the cabin to when not in use. There are 6 panels in addition to the canopy - one at each door. They all remove seperately, and it is quite easy to install or remove. They do not roll up in place - you have to remove them (at least mine do not).

12 v plugs are on the dash - one at the helm, one on the passenger side.

The Factory offers an installed inverter - much larger capacity than what I was talking about. The simple "plug into the lighter" handles my needs and is under $50. The factory version allows you to use the AC plugs on the boat - pretty cool! It is easy to wire in later as well (the harness is part of the boat)

Keep those questions coming!

Mac

 

[baz]

Barry,
Your getting fine advice here and probably don't need mine. The order for the Lucky Fin missed getting the auto pilot on it for one reason or another. To me it is the most important option on the table. It does a far better job of steering than I do. As Mac ( Island Ranger) mentioned It is indispensable in pitch black running. Wefing done the job after delivery and did a good job although it is not tuned in well enough to track. This fall maybe they can ajust it some more.

You will find the Ranger will be used for longer trips sooner or later and you will be so glad you had one installed. It is much easier to have it done at the factory during assembly. A better job can be done. When we cross the gulf stream it will stay on track and compensate for the 4 to 6 knot northerly flow. The helm can be a tedious spot to be in for hours a day. When going fishing you can rig your lines or make a head call on auto while keeping a eye out ahead from time to time.

One trip I made was several nights and it took a little getting use to the idea to run full steam ahead with out looking out the window at all. So black you could not see the wipers on the outside of the windows. You must learn to trust your instuments at those times.

Another time a 50 mile night run back in from fishing . The auto pilot did it all. Gps and radar next. Another boat on that trip got totally lost out in the pacific. That was a 24ft Tom Cat by the way. I caught him heading out by his red running lights heading out to sea instead of Rincon, Mexico. He use to be a C-Brat. He said his equipment quit all at once. It was all working fine the next day, he just paniced. If he would have used his compass and his auto pilot he would have been fine. In a panic situation a person will question his compass. Happens in the mountains or the plains as well.

I know I'm kind of rambling on here , but The decision on the auto pilot is an important one. Buy it , you will be glad you did.
captd
Ps: I have a tendency to steer in a circle when I am fishing.night or day. Auto pilot will keep me on course or even fish a preset pattern automaticly. figure eights, circles , zigzags. great stuff

You have convinced me to pursue having the Autopilot Garmin as part of my R-25 purchase. The longish periods at the helm as you mentioned would surely be uncomfortable and tiring keeping the boat on course. I also like the idea of the Autopilot being almost indispensable for night time and inclement weather conditions. I will be working the purchase details with Jeff over next few days to get things finalized and hopefully he will 'make my day'. 🙂

Thanks much to ALL for all the advice and help for my decision making. 🙂

 

[baz]

Great questions all -

...snip...

12 v plugs are on the dash - one at the helm, one on the passenger side.

The Factory offers an installed inverter - much larger capacity than what I was talking about. The simple "plug into the lighter" handles my needs and is under $50. The factory version allows you to use the AC plugs on the boat - pretty cool! It is easy to wire in later as well (the harness is part of the boat)

Keep those questions coming!

Mac

Thanks for that good feedback on the Autopilot and the side clear curtains. I have decided to include the Autopilot Garmin and transom mounted Inverter to my option list. 🙂 See my other post on Autopilot. Thanks, and yes, I'm a person who does not stop asking questions as my wife will attest to. 😉 I'm somewhat of a newbie amongst you people so I've lots to learn about. I really appreciate all the useful advice being given me during this important decision making time.