Help with getting a grip on how the Johnson pump is supposed

G

George Harrington

Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2012
Messages
5
Fluid Motion Model
C-24 C SE
Hull Identification Number
2105
Vessel Name
L'il Red Tug
MMSI Number
?????????
New boat..lot's to learn...Bare with me, if you will. We recently replaced the bilge pump as it had fired off automatically when the boat was unattended. Then our mechanic told us the switch had also burned out, so that was also replaced. Then this morning while we were on the boat, the bilge pump started to pump water out automatically, but when the water flow stopped, the pump continued to run and run, until we turned it off manually. We had not touched the manual toggle for the bilge pump but it was in the ON position. Am I correct in guessing that if we had not been there, we might have burned out another pump and/or switch? Tx for your help..George Harrington
 
I would suspect your battery would go dead before the pump would burn out. What type of pump did your mechanic install? The newer ones have a sensor rather than a float. Silly question but I assume the boat was in the water? The reason I ask is because if it is on the trailer with the plug in and you get water in the bilge the pump does tend to get stuck and stay on. When on the trailer the plug for the bilge should be removed.
 
Exactly same pump, and all in the water
 
My 2010 21 EC has a Johnson pump with an electronic float switch, ie black box with the 2 circles you put your fingers on to test the switch. If my switch by the throttle is on the pump will run as long as the switch is on.

I had an experience with one of these electronic switches last spring. I brought the boat home and left it on the trailer for a couple of days before I got around to pulling the plug. I happened to lift the access lid to the pump one day to find the water level up to the shaft. Hmmm. I put my fingers on the test circles and the pump fired up right away. Take my fingers of the circles, pump quit. Pump turned on from the switch panel with no problem. I had been told that if these switches get an oil film on them from bilge water that it could stop them from sensing so I got some Varsol and wiped her clean. Fill boat up with garden hose and it still would not work. Next attempt was with a piece of emery cloth on the circles but that did not work. It would still only work as long as I held my fingers on the circles. Ranager Tugs being Ranger Tugs sent me another one promptly. New switch solved the problem. However I will never trust these things again. Someone could easily put their fingers on the circles, have the pump fire and assume that everything was okay and go away for a couple of weeks only to be contacted by their marina and informed that there is a slight problem. If I'm not going to able to check my boat now for more than 3 or 4 days I bring it home. I would rather have it sink on the driveway.

Dave
 
My R-21EC had the same "continuously running" pump problem. In my case, the cure was to keep the little circle areas on the sensor (where you put your fingers) clean. If mildew or anything else gets on the surface and then that coating gets damp, the sensor decides there is water present and activates the pump. Part of my "put the boat to bed" routine every time I left the dock was to rub my fingers over both sensor circles. I did not need cleaners or abrasives, just a finger wipe.

I forget how the manual switch was wired, but I would think that it should be OFF unless you want the pump to be forced ON. Check this by cleaning the sensors as above and then putting fresh water into the bilge to activate the pump with the manual switch OFF.

-- John H
 
Dave is correct regarding the oil film on the sensor. I have had to clean mine a couple of times. This is a safeguard in case there is an oil leak (which we all know has happened on a few of the tugs) so the oil will not get pumped overboard. I assume though that in the event the lower pump fails the upper pump will be engaged because that is never in water until a major problem occurs. So with that said, I would follow up with the steps suggested by Dave. If you get your pump going after that I would try to figure out why your oily film is building up so quickly.
 
I've accidentally switched the bilge pump on -- probably hit it with my shoulder coming out of the V-Berth area. I "manually" fixed it with a pair of wire cutters. Fortunately Andrew was on the boat the following day and I learned about the 2 manual switches.

Quick and cheqp fix: buy some of the switch covers. I paid less than $5 each for 5 of them at a local chandlery. I put one over each of the 2 bilge pumps, the macerator pump and the switches for my electronics. Now I never accidentally trip them on or off. I put yellow tape on the macerator switch cover just to remind my fingers -- often they decide to play without my brain being engaged -- not to turn this one on unless I really mean it.

Dave
 
We have lost two bilge pumps as a result of the "electronic" float switches. Trust me, the pump will not run dry for an extended period of time without burning itself up. I am in the process of replacing the switches with conventional float type. I had a Rule float switch in my old boat and it lsted for years without failure.

Pat, Ladybug, Too
 
It appears you have opened a second thread on basically the same subject. That is generally not a good idea.

To directy answer the title of this thread, the panel switch should always be "Off" unless you detect water in the bilge and the pump is not removing it automatically. And if the pump sensor/float has failed and the pump will not stop running moving the toggle to "Off" should make absolutely no difference.

As I said in reply to the other, more recent, post if you have a conventionally wired bilge pump the toggle switch on the panel should never be in the "On" position unless you are certain the boat is filling and the sensor/float has failed so the pump does not start on its own. Otherwise the pump will run to destruction once the water is gone.

I questioned how you turned it off, and apparently that is because the switch was in the wrong position and you "fixed" it by putting it in the correct position. Again, you should not be able to turn off the pump manually if it started due to the sensor/float detecting water and water is still present. If the water is gone, the pump should shut itself off. If it does not, and the only way to stop it is by using the toggle switch you have a serious installation problem.

I would recommend that you find other service than the ones you have already used. It appears they did not properly diagnose your original problem and did not explain why the pump failed in the first place. I even believe your pump is most likely still wired incorrectly if the toggle must be in the "On" position for the sensor/float to operate the pump.

(Just as a guess, I would say your pump started to pump "automatically", as described in your post, because you turned on the main battery switch and you had the manual bilge pump switch set to "On". Is that a possibility?)
 
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