Here's a question for all outboard motor owners?

[baz]

Subject: Here's a question for all outboard motor owners?

When I owned my 2019 R27/OB I had a non-sexully fetish attitude about flushing the raised Yamaha 300HP with fresh water when returning to the dock from my salty PNW area waters, and then keeping it raised until my next cruise.

What I'm wondering is: What if after performing the fresh water flushing task I lower the engine back to the water so that I keep the overall boat's length inline with my slips length that I pay for every inch that my boat consumes. My marina is a real stickler for charging for extra rounded-up feet my boat needs in its slip. It allows for an extra 2 feet beyond what the slip is designed for so long as it does not interfere too much with the docks fairway space.

Once the engine has been flushed with fresh water and then lowered back down so that a portion lowers into the salt water, will this still be sufficient to avoid what the salt water can do to the lower portion of the motor? If there's not any real issue with doing this the benefit is of course I can get by with a smaller slip length and not have my engine hanging out into the dock's fairway and subject to another boats errant navigation and colliding with the hung out motor. Yes, could stern in to my slip to avoid this issue I suppose. I've seen too many outboard engines damaged by boats not paying attention to their course down the dock fairways and clipping the stuck out outboard motors, causing serious damage, and being left for the outboard owner to figure out who did it.

If I were to adopt this procedure I would have the portion of the engine that resides in the salty water with it being lowered, painted as is my boat's bottom for protecting it from barnacles and other crud, etc accumulations.

For the 2023 R25/OB NW Edition the raised 250 HP Yamaha engine is completely out of the water.

So what's the consensus for lowering the engine back down into the salty water after having it flushed with fresh water?

Thanks for any insights and advice. 🙂

 

[S. Todd]

Its your money and your boat, but for me, I would pay for the larger slip, if available, and keep the engine's lower unit out of the salt water and my boat safe from errant or inexperienced captains. The question I would ask is what percentage of the cost of the boat and the annual ownership costs is the extra slip length? (I admit I have an inboard that only visits fresh water.) If I was only going to keep the boat for a few years and use it frequently, like a few time each week, during those few years, I might have a different view. I have read your posts on the forum for years (and appreciate them), and despite your frequent change in Ranger Tug models due to your changing life circumstances, the energy you spend in making the boat the way you want it and the care you appear to spend on it, leads me to believe your boat is one that gets owner attention as opposed to one that gets neglected. The extra sleep you would get not worrying about the boat should justify the cost of the longer slip.

 

[baz]

S. Todd: Thank you for your response.

You most likely realize I'm a person with much curiosity about things, be they minor or not. It's in my nature to ask questions constantly, and from this I learn and have great interesting conversations with people.

I will be having a 28-foot covered slip for my 2023 R25/OB NW Edition, or may go for the 30-foot covered slip.

The RT website indicates for this boat model

LOA (motor down) 28' 5"
LOA (motor up) 29' 8"

So with motor down the boat will fit nicely in the 28-foot slip with practically no overhang into the dock's fairway.
So with motor up the boat will hang out from the end of the slip by some 1' 8" into the docks fairway. Marina will charge me for the extra 2 feet if in a 28-foot slip.

I'm weighing up the cost difference between the 28 and 30 foot cover slips.

I will admit, my primary concern for the motor being up or down is focused on the charge for slip lengths.

28-foot covered slip runs from $375 to $491 per month.
30-foot covered slip runs from $549 to $600 per month.

The variation for each slip type is based on the total width of the dual occupancy slip and the width of the dock's fairway the slip faces.

Thus over say a 10 yr period keeping the boat in a 28-foot cover slip at $375/month vs. the 30-foot covered slip at $549/months comes to a difference of some $21,000, and for the most expensive slip options for 28 vs. 30 it's $13,080 over a 10 yr period.

My thoughts at this time is to hope for the 28-foot covered slip at a $476/month + $22/month for the 2' overhang charge or some $498/month, and stern in with a starboard tie to keep my motor out of the fairway with it being raised. If I felt good about keeping the motor down in the 28-foot slip I could save some $22/month presumably.

 

[Submariner]

I'd opt for the bigger slip bill. When the motor is in the water, not only does it add to the risk of galvanic corrosion to the metals under water, but also adds to marine growth since the lower unit of the Yamaha is normally not painted with an anti-fowling paint.

When I flush my Yamaha F300 with freshwater (and Salt-away), that flushes out all the salt throughout the engine. I do this after every trip upon returning to home port. I don't do this at guest marinas when I'm out boating. (mainly because where water is on the dock in relation to my boat is usually not in a convenient spot). When the engine is lowered, all that water falls out of the upper portion of the engine. To drop the engine into the water leaves just the lower unit in the salt water which minimizes the effects of salt water. The only way to eliminate the risk all together is to store the outboard kicked up, out of water after it's been freshwater flushed.

In fact I do one other trick with my outboard. I bring it fully up, then I flip the tilt-stop down. Then I lower the unit onto the tilt stop. It takes about a minute more, in the down position on the power tilt, before the trim pistons fully retract. This leaves the engine kicked up, out of the water... with the two trim pistons on the power/tilt unit fully retracted. Helps protect those hydraulic rams from pitting caused by corrosion which ultimately would lead to faulty hydraulic seals. I only do this when I know I'll be leaving the boat parked for a week or more. The next outing, I then have to raise the pistons to lift the motor off the tilt-stop, which takes another minute or so to do.

Another thing I do with my outboard... the very first thing I do when I get to the boat is to lower the engine. Then I let it sit, lowered, without starting it, while I load the boat, disconnect shore power, etc... The oil in the engine on an outboard will move to all the wrong places when in the raised position. I want to give that oil some time to work it's way back to where it's important, before I start the engine. So I let it sit vertical, in the water, turned off for several minutes before starting.

 

[cathy&ron]

Here's why I leave my 200HP Yamaha always down on Lady Grey, a 2017 R-23. The Yamaha dealer points out that the engine when fully raised leaves the lowest inch still in the water. True, the zink at the motor mount keeps working, but now the zink at the prop end of the engine is completely out of the water leaving your engine's lower end open to damage from galvanic action. His advice is to leave the engine down all the time, thus protecting the lower engine with its zink. And, to reduce weed growth, paint the lower end with antifoul, And, use your boat more. Fair Winds, Ron & Cathy

 

[baz]

Here's why I leave my 200HP Yamaha always down on Lady Grey, a 2017 R-23. The Yamaha dealer points out that the engine when fully raised leaves the lowest inch still in the water. True, the zink at the motor mount keeps working, but now the zink at the prop end of the engine is completely out of the water leaving your engine's lower end open to damage from galvanic action. His advice is to leave the engine down all the time, thus protecting the lower engine with its zink. And, to reduce weed growth, paint the lower end with antifoul, And, use your boat more. Fair Winds, Ron & Cathy

Ron & Cathy: Yes, I've had the same advice given to me by my local Yamaha dealer here at the Port of Edmonds. When I have my boat's bottom painted the lower section of my 250 HP Yamaha will have a similar treatment as for the hull's bottom. It does cost a little extra (did this for my 300HP on my previous R27/OB for about $300), but well worth it IMO.

 

[BB marine]

Here's why I leave my 200HP Yamaha always down on Lady Grey, a 2017 R-23. The Yamaha dealer points out that the engine when fully raised leaves the lowest inch still in the water. True, the zink at the motor mount keeps working, but now the zink at the prop end of the engine is completely out of the water leaving your engine's lower end open to damage from galvanic action. His advice is to leave the engine down all the time, thus protecting the lower engine with its zink. And, to reduce weed growth, paint the lower end with antifoul, And, use your boat more. Fair Winds, Ron & Cathy

Leaving the outboard down all the time is probably not the best idea in fresh or salt water for storage. Yes the anode mounted at the cavitation plate is out of the water and not protecting the lower unit and midsection. But 95% of the lower unit is out of the water and the transom clamp bracket has an anode that is protecting it. If you feel you need more anode protection just add a hull divers dream. You can coat the outside of the Gear housing with antifouling paint and part of the midsection that stays in the water but it is hard to protect the inside areas of the midsection and exhaust cavities. Most of theses areas are not painted. This was one of the reasons why sterndrive maintenance cost after a few years of use in saltwater was higher than outboards. Outboards became the more favorable power plant. The outboards can be raised out of the sea water reducing the chance for corrosion. The stern drives were always in the water and marine growth and corrosion reduced the longevity. The sterndrives manufactures started installing cathodic protection systems to help protect the aluminum parts that are continually exposed while in the water. This helped but still signs of corrosion. Take advantage of the outboard design keep it out of the water when not in use. Keep it flushed and rinsed with fresh water to help increase the engines longevity, reliability and appearance. Just My opinion.

You may find that the added cost of the larger slip may be more than the replacement of a lower unit housing and midsection components over a five year period of time. So you need to throw that into the equation .

 

[Submariner]

My last boat had a Mercruiser 5.0L MPI, V8, 260HP, with an Alpha1 stern drive. Kept it on a trailer (24 foot bowrider/wakeboard boat).

In retrospect, what a horrible invention a stern drive is. I spent so much money on that power train, and lost so much time out boating due to repairs. Even with it on a trailer, and flushing it after every trip.

The one area of boating that I see where stern drives work best is out at the lake on a trailerable boat. Mainly because they provide easy access all the way around the transom for swimming and water sports. An outboard gets in the way of the tow rope. However, a quick walk through the boat show and there is no shortage of wakeboard boats offered today with an outboard. Primarily due to maintenance and support costs of a stern drive. They just makes boating too expensive! (way more than it needs to be).

Today, you couldn't give me a boat with a stern drive. I'll only ever have an outboard or a diesel inboard again.

Heading back to the dock during Puget Sound Spot Prawn season, at hood canal, in our 24' Maxum, I had detonation on 3 of the 8 cylinders (burnt the end of the spark plugs completely off). The coolant passages got clogged with rust from the engine block. This affected 3 of the 4 corners of the engine block which meant it wasn't a single blockage, but multiple, separate blockages. We barely made it back to shore before the engine died. She spent 2 months at the shop getting fixed. Never ran right after that. Lost another entire boating season as Mercury tried troubleshooting it.

Of course, that's really how I landed with an RT27-OB which is the happy ending to this boat-fail. 🙂

 

[gregc]

In fact I do one other trick with my outboard. I bring it fully up, then I flip the tilt-stop down. Then I lower the unit onto the tilt stop. It takes about a minute more, in the down position on the power tilt, before the trim pistons fully retract. This leaves the engine kicked up, out of the water... with the two trim pistons on the power/tilt unit fully retracted.

Wait... what?

What tilt stop? This is brilliant...

 

[baz]

In fact I do one other trick with my outboard. I bring it fully up, then I flip the tilt-stop down. Then I lower the unit onto the tilt stop. It takes about a minute more, in the down position on the power tilt, before the trim pistons fully retract. This leaves the engine kicked up, out of the water... with the two trim pistons on the power/tilt unit fully retracted.

Wait... what?

What tilt stop? This is brilliant...

Yea... It's in the manual. It helps to keep the piston rods retracted to avoid them getting pitted with being fully exposed to the elements. I've done this but only when leaving the boat unattended for extended times.

 

[knotflying]

Pay me now or pay me later. Leave the engine up and pay the extra slip fee.

 

[Submariner]

In fact I do one other trick with my outboard. I bring it fully up, then I flip the tilt-stop down. Then I lower the unit onto the tilt stop. It takes about a minute more, in the down position on the power tilt, before the trim pistons fully retract. This leaves the engine kicked up, out of the water... with the two trim pistons on the power/tilt unit fully retracted.

Wait... what?

What tilt stop? This is brilliant...

Walk over to my boat the next time you're at the dock. You'll see. 🙂

 

[dgiles]

My last boat had a Mercruiser 5.0L MPI, V8, 260HP, with an Alpha1 stern drive. Kept it on a trailer (24 foot bowrider/wakeboard boat).

In retrospect, what a horrible invention a stern drive is. I spent so much money on that power train, and lost so much time out boating due to repairs. Even with it on a trailer, and flushing it after every trip.

The one area of boating that I see where stern drives work best is out at the lake on a trailerable boat. Mainly because they provide easy access all the way around the transom for swimming and water sports. An outboard gets in the way of the tow rope. However, a quick walk through the boat show and there is no shortage of wakeboard boats offered today with an outboard. Primarily due to maintenance and support costs of a stern drive. They just makes boating too expensive! (way more than it needs to be).

Today, you couldn't give me a boat with a stern drive. I'll only ever have an outboard or a diesel inboard again.

Heading back to the dock during Puget Sound Spot Prawn season, at hood canal, in our 24' Maxum, I had detonation on 3 of the 8 cylinders (burnt the end of the spark plugs completely off). The coolant passages got clogged with rust from the engine block. This affected 3 of the 4 corners of the engine block which meant it wasn't a single blockage, but multiple, separate blockages. We barely made it back to shore before the engine died. She spent 2 months at the shop getting fixed. Never ran right after that. Lost another entire boating season as Mercury tried troubleshooting it.

Of course, that's really how I landed with an RT27-OB which is the happy ending to this boat-fail. 🙂

Regardless if diesel or gas, the concepts are the same. Did you not have a closed cooled engine?? A closed cooled engine doesn't get salt water into the block.

 

[Submariner]

Regardless if diesel or gas, the concepts are the same. Did you not have a closed cooled engine?? A closed cooled engine doesn't get salt water into the block.

The Mercruiser I had was raw-water cooled. I looked into putting in a closed loop cooling system, but even then, the exhaust elbows would have still been raw water cooled. Rust is expected in a motor such as this. They make the blocks thick enough to handle some loss of material due to rust I was told. (in comparison, the Yamaha Outboard has anodes internal to the engine which should help).

I had other problems as well with the stern drive. Went out crabbing, came back to the boat ramp, boat ran fine. Once on the trailer, the port side of the stern drive, with the hydraulic ram that controls the tilt of the sterndrive... the aluminum had cracked (it was like, 3/8", maybe 1/2" thick cast aluminum, I don't recall) and was just dangling such that the port side hydraulic ram couldn't raise or lower the stern drive. The starboard side worked fine which was why I never noticed it. This was a call to my insurance company.

The marine surveyor proved that I hit an underwater object (probably a submerged log/deadhead). The prop grabbed it and the resulting torque was to the port side which snapped that aluminum support structure.

So, right here, this could happen also on an outboard. The outboard would kick-up since only gravity and the thrust of the engine is what keeps it against the transom. Drop the lower unit off the outboard which is about a 20 minute job, and repair or replace whatever damage is done.

In my stern drive example above, it was a $7,000 insurance repair for a $500 part to be replaced. They had to pull the entire V8 motor out of the boat to get to the inside of the transom to disassemble the stern drive so they could replace the broken support structure on the outside. This was on a boat that cost $40k back in 2006.

 

[gregc]

Walk over to my boat the next time you're at the dock. You'll see. 🙂

Wilco.....

WE'RE NOT STALKING YOU.

😉

 

[dgiles]

Regardless if diesel or gas, the concepts are the same. Did you not have a closed cooled engine?? A closed cooled engine doesn't get salt water into the block.

The Mercruiser I had was raw-water cooled. I looked into putting in a closed loop cooling system, but even then, the exhaust elbows would have still been raw water cooled. Rust is expected in a motor such as this. They make the blocks thick enough to handle some loss of material due to rust I was told. (in comparison, the Yamaha Outboard has anodes internal to the engine which should help).

I had other problems as well with the stern drive. Went out crabbing, came back to the boat ramp, boat ran fine. Once on the trailer, the port side of the stern drive, with the hydraulic ram that controls the tilt of the sterndrive... the aluminum had cracked (it was like, 3/8", maybe 1/2" thick cast aluminum, I don't recall) and was just dangling such that the port side hydraulic ram couldn't raise or lower the stern drive. The starboard side worked fine which was why I never noticed it. This was a call to my insurance company.

The marine surveyor proved that I hit an underwater object (probably a submerged log/deadhead). The prop grabbed it and the resulting torque was to the port side which snapped that aluminum support structure.

So, right here, this could happen also on an outboard. The outboard would kick-up since only gravity and the thrust of the engine is what keeps it against the transom. Drop the lower unit off the outboard which is about a 20 minute job, and repair or replace whatever damage is done.

In my stern drive example above, it was a $7,000 insurance repair for a $500 part to be replaced. They had to pull the entire V8 motor out of the boat to get to the inside of the transom to disassemble the stern drive so they could replace the broken support structure on the outside. This was on a boat that cost $40k back in 2006.

Fair enough. But realize, you can buy an entire Alpha 1 leg for $2000 if you hit a log. Lots of outboards get sheared off or shafts bent from hitting logs and once you price out the bottom end of a Yamaha 250, $$ savings go to the sterndrive.

Agree that overall outboards are better in salt for lots of reasons, but there are 10's of thousands of sterndrives in salt that work perfectly fine with maintenance and log avoidance...

 

[Dave Rogers]

I have gone to keeping my motor tilted out of the water 300 horsepower Yamaha on R27 ranger tug. Using a plastic bin I drop it down below the lower unit. This is mainly during longer storage. This separates all galvanic connection between the motor and the water. I'm in freshwater on the canal, I'm in a pretty hot marina my trim tab sinks take quite a beating.