House Batteries Failed

D

downey

Active member
Joined
Dec 5, 2013
Messages
36
Fluid Motion Model
C-28
Vessel Name
Tulipan
After just over 1 year the AGM house batteries don't last 15 minutes with the engine off. We have never anchored, and when not in use we always have the boat at a dock plugged into shore power. We use our boat at least once a week.
The other day I was out crabbing, turned the engine off and 15 minutes later I got a "low battery" alarm, showing 11 amps. I had both radios on, all the Garmin guages, and the fridge (which did not cycle during this time).
I checked the solar power and it was showing charging at 5 - 5.6 amp hours.
As we've never anchored we weren't too concerned when this happened in the past, and it used to take about 40 minutes before the alarm came on. I would just start up the engine and let it idle for 5-10 minutes.
I mentioned all this to both Andrew and Dave Turner (Port Boathouse) just before my 1 year warranty ran out, Andrew informed me the batteries are only warrantied for 6 months.
So any suggestions, or has anybody else experienced this?

Thanks in advance.
 
You have many things to check out. Batteries go bad because of continuous discharging. AGM batteries are supposed to take more abuse than flooded, but still die after many discharges.

a) Are you accidentally using too much power and drawing the batteries down? Lots of possibilities here. The refrigerator, regardless of a solar panel will eventually draw down the batteries.
b) Find out if you have a parasitic draw causing you batteries to discharge when everything is off.
c) It could be you could have had a bad battery and all is well
d) Your charger may not be correctly set or is not operating properly and fried the batteries.
e) Is your charger on when you are on shore power? You may think you are charging but maybe not.

No sense in replacing anything until you figure out if your problem is owner error or an electrical issue.

Replacement
Many theories on what to use. As many on this site know I am a proponent of flooded. Why? They are comparatively inexpensive and a proven product. As good as AGM's are, human error is hard to avoid. So when you destroy an AGM you are looking in the $200 to $250 range. Destroy a standard flooded and you are looking at $90. I replace mine every 3 years. It will take quite some time to hit the AGM cost.
 
I also advocate flooded 99% of the time, to me batteries are disposable and not something i invest (waste) money on.

The other 1% would be for my winch on my Jeep, my winch destroys most (ones ive tried) flooded batteries in minutes due to very high discharge rates, not really an issue in a boat or rv with responsible use.
 
I would really check all connections . My batteries are still going strong and they are from 2011... Well the boat is 2011..
 
Thanks for the responses:

"d) Your charger may not be correctly set or is not operating properly and fried the batteries.
e) Is your charger on when you are on shore power? You may think you are charging but maybe not."

Interesting, both the thruster and starting batteries are fine.
The connections on all batteries look like new, no corrosion evident.
Is it possible to only be charging the 2 good batteries and not the other 2?
It was only 15 minutes after I turned off the engine.
Previous to this boat I had a Robalo with all the same stuff, fridge etc. We used to crab all the time, staying 1 hour between pulls. I had the same batteries for 6 years, traded them in on the Ranger.

I will definitely not be buying AGM again, they are $320 CAD at the local Automotive Dealer.
 
Think about it. Your engine battery and thruster battery are not drawing any power when not in use. Your house batteries are. Cutting to the chase, the relays will cut out any battery bank that goes below proper voltage to save the other batteries. Hence if your house batteries are not being charged and they go too low, the relays will cut them off from the engine and thruster.
I am not sure what year your R-27 is and for that matter the wiring can change at any time mid-year. Do you have a switch in your battery box that says inverter? Is your inverter a combi with the charger and inverter as one unit? If so then your inverter switch needs to be on for your batteries to get charged. That could be your problem also. Additionally If your batteries are dead and you start the boat and go for a short distance you are only getting a surface charge and they will not last long at all.
Check it out. The fix could be as simple as turning on your inverter switch.
 
"I am not sure what year your R-27 is and for that matter the wiring can change at any time mid-year. Do you have a switch in your battery box that says inverter?"

It's a 2014, I will check tomorrow to see if I have such a switch, boy would that be nice if it was something that simple.
Thanks
 
I believe you may have a separate charger that goes directly to your battery banks and the inverter switch was eliminated, but take a look. It would be nice if the issue was a flip of the switch.
The charging and battery systems are very sofisticated so you need to ensure that all the systems are working properly before you start suspecting batteries and replacing them.
 
You need to try to move each connection on the batteries.. They will look great but still can be loose.. If they are not tight you may not be charging properly..
 
If you can't find the problem elsewhere - and are convinced it is the batteries:

Remove one or more of the "sealed" battery caps - they take a 19 mm thin walled socket.

If there is no gel visible - you batteries have become starved for water.

Slowly add distilled water to each cell, filling them evenly to the top line - usually a triangle.

Allow them to sit for an hour or so.

Give them a tr.

I know AGM batteries should not be opened or watered - but if they are dead, no harm will come from trying. I've recovered 2 sets of batteries this way, one for me and one for a friend who got stuck as you did.
 
I forgot to mention, every time I check the battery level on both the "solar read out panel" and on the DC guage at the top of the breaker panel, all batteries read the same. About 14 amps.
I talked briefly with the mechanic that does the warranty work for Port Boathouse, he also thought I should check to be sure the battery charger breaker was on, it was, and some "blue" switch, which is in the lazarette where the battery switches are.
He says if the batteries are too weak that switch will not allow the charger to charge, in which case you bring down another charger and charge the batteries. Then it will cycle properly.
I was limited for time yesterday, so checked the breaker, it was on. I could not find this "blue" switch.
Anybody ever hear of this, and could describe better where I will find it.

I will try this "Slowly add distilled water to each cell, filling them evenly to the top line - usually a triangle." if all else fails.

Keeping in mind all the batteries always show full charge when underway or on shore power.
 
Downey,

Most likely, the meter is reading 14 Volts - a measure of the level of charge, rather than 14 Amps, a measure of rate of flow of electricity.

If your charger is bringing the battery to approximately 14 Volts, it is charging to the proper level of "full".

Unfortunately, maintaining a battery (flooded, AGM, or Gel) at 14 Volts for an extended period will, in some designs, cause them to lose water over time.

Since they are dead, you have nothing to lose by opening one or more caps with a 19 mm thin wall socket (wear safety glasses), and inspecting the water level. If it is OK, just close them up. If it is low, add distilled water to all cells, the very worst that can happen is the batteries die completely - but more likely, you will get another year of so of life out of them.

In a continuous charge system such as yours - when the boat is plugged in and charging for long periods - flooded cells that are checked every 3 to 6 months (check them at 3 months and see if they need water), are most likely to give longest life. /Stu
 
I would contact the manufacturer of the batteries and see what they might do for you? I would convey that your owners group is wondering what is really the reasoning behind only a six month warranty. A six month warranty on an AGM battery seems a little light considering their cost. I mean you can get a warranty of a year on flooded cell batteries from Wal-Mart. I wonder if removing the batteries and having them load tested might be in order once they are fully charged. In you first post you mention you sit with the engine off for about forty minutes before the low battery alarm came on, now it occurs in fifteen minutes. If you can only go forty minutes before your low battery alarm comes on to me means you have way too much load on the batteries or they were not getting fully charged to begin with. I'm thinking there is where I would start. Having the full suite of electronics on plus a couple radios, refridge seems like more than you need to have taxing the batteries. Letting the low battery alarm signal you to charge the batteries in my world anyway is not the best practice. With a solar panel helping, it would seem to me something is drawing more out of the batteries than it should be. Or the batteries are just not getting fully charged for whatever reason. Constant severe discharging of batteries is what helps them fail sooner. Maybe it is something to do with your ACR relay deciding what and how much to charge you house batteries.
 
Just to recap a bit here, before you do anything you need to determine or rule out what may have caused your batteries to fail.
Are connections good?
Is charger charging and all switches on that need to be on?
Are charger settings correct?
Once you have determined all systems work, charge batteries, let rest and do a load test.
If batteries prove defective and before you start messing with adding water etc. call the manufacturer and discuss the issue.
If you get nowhere you have nothing to lose if you start messing with adding distilled water.
If that fails then you need to bite the bullet and get new batteries.
You can't mix and match battery types so your next financial/ philosophical question/answer is do you want to go flooded or AGM.
Please let us know how things progress.
 
I have had problems with house batteries on my 2010 R27. First the combined charger/inverter was replaced with separate units. That helped some but later I found that the connection from the solar charger to the pair of house batteries had broken in an unusual place; inside the insulation about 1/2" from the terminal clip. replacing that connection solved my problem. So check the continuity of the wires to and from the batteries.
 
Pease,
Your point is well taken. However as I read through downey's responses something has dawned on me. It seems that before he leaves the dock all the batteries are reading around 14 volts. This would lead me to believe that he is getting a charge from his charging sources. Let's for now assume the solar and charger are keeping him topped off. However, after he leaves the dock his house batteries are dying after 15 minutes with a substantial load on them. The solar panel could not keep up with the equipment that he has running. Hence if the batteries are shot they are losing the charge faster than the solar panel can keep up. Basically he is doing a load test. I think at this juncture I may charge the batteries up and bring them to one of the auto parts guys for an official load test to confirm or rule out the bad battery theory.
 
" I'm thinking there is where I would start. Having the full suite of electronics on plus a couple radios, refridge seems like more than you need to have taxing the batteries. Letting the low battery alarm signal you to charge the batteries in my world anyway is not the best practice."

I'm not letting the low battery alarm signal me to charge my batteries.
I can't believe that after 15 minutes this alarm is going off, as mentioned earlier with my last boat, I would regularly go 1 hour and never had an issue. I always leave all the guages, radios and fridge on while sitting for an hour.
Is this really too big a load for 2 deep cycle AGM batteries? It certainly wasn't for one wet battery in my Robalo.

Yes a 6 month warranty is ridiculous for the price of these batteries, this came straight from Andrew Custis.

Yesterday I went down to the dock, read the guages, they were at the 14 amps, I turned off the shore power, and watched TV with the fridge on and cycling for 45 minutes. Before I left I checked the guages, 2 batteries at 14 and one at 13. I turned the shore power back on and left wondering if the Garmin is giving a false reading?
Next time this happens, I will be sure to read all the guages before I start the engine.
 
Personally I would take out a multi meter and check the batteries right at the terminals. This way you know that you are getting the information straight from the source and it is accurate. Long story short, when I was having a dead battery issue I was getting different readings from different meters. It turned out that the wiring to the meters (the solar panel and the DC panel analog) were wired in reverse so house bank was different on the solar meter than the analog. Talk about a head scratcher!
I would suggest that the next time you get the alarm compare the voltage at the battery to what the Garmin says if they are the same it will rule out your defective garmin suspicion. However, if it were me, with all the info, I would do the load test and rule out or confirm whether they are bad batteries.
 
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