I Wonder Why - An Open Letter

[markkiefaber]

I have a C 28. It is a terrific boat. I think we all know how strong the customer service is for both the Tugs and the Cutwaters. This forum is full of praise for Fluid Motion. That's why I am confused and disappointed by the conscious decision to continue to install an autopilot system that has failed so many times on so many boats. Some owners write that they have replaced their Garmin autopilot pump 3 times. Others say that their decision to add the check valve was the only way to avoid the failure of the pump. Even the Garmin site recommends using the check valve if there is uneven pressure on the rudder (prop wash). Yesterday, I talked with the yard (Seven Seas) that services Tugs and Cutwaters in Maryland. The man I talked with told me that to replace the pump and install the check valve would be $2000. He told me to get Garmin to pony up and replace it. We all know how unwilling Garmin is to take responsibility for the pump failures. So here's how I see it. With cars, safety equipment never goes out of warranty. Seems to me that steering is a pretty critical aspect of safety for a boat that will go 20 kts.

Here's my ask from Fluid Motion. Agree to pay for the installation of the autopilot pump with the check valve. Boom. That's it. Why continue to build the resentment of your loyal owners? It just doesn't make sense.

Mark Kiefaber
Annapolis, MD
540-420-0364

 

[NorthernFocus]

As to why FM sticks with the Garmin AP they will likely comment. But I suspect it's a simple matter of sticking with the Garmin integrated package.

With cars, safety equipment never goes out of warranty. Seems to me that steering is a pretty critical aspect of safety for a boat that will go 20 kts.

AP is a convenience not a safety feature. If anything autopilot degrades safety posture of a boat/crew. Particularly when traveling at 20 knots. The safest thing to do is stay at the helm with your hands on the wheel. The "ape" doesn't drive as well as a human and is unfortunately blind.

 

[CruisingElvinRay]

As to why FM sticks with the Garmin AP they will likely comment. But I suspect it's a simple matter of sticking with the Garmin integrated package.

With cars, safety equipment never goes out of warranty. Seems to me that steering is a pretty critical aspect of safety for a boat that will go 20 kts.

AP is a convenience not a safety feature. If anything autopilot degrades safety posture of a boat/crew. Particularly when traveling at 20 knots. The safest thing to do is stay at the helm with your hands on the wheel. The "ape" doesn't drive as well as a human and is unfortunately blind.

AP doesn’t degrade the safety posture of the crew. How it is used (misused) MAY do that, but the Autopilot itself is a tool. Nothing more.

As for the original post, without data on how many failures there are compared to boats shipped, it may or may not be a big problem. Forums like this tend to make problems seem larger than they are because nobody is going to start a thread saying “my autopilot is working perfectly”.

My autopilot (reactor 40) has worked well and has proven very useful, especially on long trips, reducing fatigue and increasing safety.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[bill46]

We have a 2014 R31CB we bought used in 2016. The dealer was swapping the pump from another used boat on his lot before the sea trial! It has worked flawlessly for 5 years, even in rough seas. I bought the G3 map chip and it will stay in the middle of the channel even when there are many curves. We use it a lot, but always keep a sharp lookout and shut off when passing other boats.

My biggest Garmin beef is remote microphone cord. It the insulation fell off and it is no longer available. Garmin suggested a new radio and mike north of $500.00. I can buy a lot of handhelds for that price!

I recently had a mike cord failure on a ICOM ham radio. Cord plugs in and was under $15.00 on ebay
!

 

[Bobby P.]

My auto pilot works perfectly. Baltimore, the keys and throughout New England. I’m perfectly happy with the installed products and think they are a good fit with my 2017 R31CB.
Bobby

 

[it4llc]

I really like the AP on our boat (C28) and use it a lot more than I thought I would. I will say that manual steering above 10-12 knots started to get difficult. Once we installed the check valve kit though, it made a huge difference and steering is a lot easier now.

 

[Andrew Custis]

Hello Mark,

Thank you for posting on the forum. I was searching out your name in our system to check whether you purchased the boat new with a warranty but cannot locate it. Perhaps it is under a different name? This goes a long ways with Garmin when it comes to replacing components as they offer a full 3 year warranty on anything OEM installed to the original owner.

The check valve was actually a recent thing added to the 2.0 liter pumps. We spent a lot of time troubleshooting this with Garmin when they realized the internal valves were failing. Basically, the pump has an internal valve that was failing allowing the fluid to bypass in the system which in turn allowed the rudder to drift whether you were using the pilot or not. The external valve kit could be added without replacing the pump which should solve the issue.

In regard to the Garmin site, they added the comment about using the valve kit with the smaller pumps from troubleshooting and working with us and other manufacturers. We had used this pump for nearly six years prior to ever experiencing one failure so it wasn't something that was happening on older boats. Components change, place of manufacturing changes and I am sure this can attribute to some unknown issues when switching out parts. We are now using the smart pumps on the autopilot systems that have the same check valve kit mounted directly to the pump. Having an all in one package makes it easier and why we made the change.

If you worked with one of our dealerships, I am sure they would be willing to help you install the check valve kit and I am sure Garmin would assist in the parts needed. Let us know who this is and we can reach out to get them reconnected with you to assist.

Thank you,

 

[markkiefaber]

Andrew: Thank you for your very thoughtful response. I did talk with the yard that is right next to Pocket Yachts in Maryland. The yard owner had already talked with Pocket Yachts about my pump issue and their advice was for me to get the serial number off the pump and go to Garmin. My C28 is a 2017 and I am the second owner. I had Pocket Yachts transfer over the me the 5 year Volvo warranty that the original owner had purchased. I don't think I have any warranty left on the rest of the boat. Am I right? So what should my next move be? Thanks for all your help.

Mark

 

[Andrew Custis]

Hello Mark,

I would imagine the best thing to do is to order a check valve kit from Garmin directly. Once you receive the parts, see if you can hire Pocket Yachts to install and bleed the system. It shouldn't be an expensive job to have done. If you email me directly, I may be able to get a valve kent sent to you. Please send me a direct email at andrewcustis@rangertugs.com.

Thank you

 

[it4llc]

Mark - I have an unused check valve kit if you are interested. I got one to deal with the steering issues, but ended up having it handled under warranty and they provided the kit so now I have the extra kit. You'd still need some hoses/fittings though.

 

[jessica1]

Mark - I have an unused check valve kit if you are interested. I got one to deal with the steering issues, but ended up having it handled under warranty and they provided the kit so now I have the extra kit. You'd still need some hoses/fittings though.

Thanks for the offer! I appreciate it, but I already got the steering issues sorted out. Hopefully, someone else can make good use of the check valve kit.

 

[Brian John]

Hello Mark,

I would imagine the best thing to do is to order a check valve kit from Garmin directly. Once you receive the parts, see if you can hire Pocket Yachts to install and bleed the system. It shouldn't be an expensive job to have done. If you email me directly, I may be able to get a valve kent sent to you. Please send me a direct email at andrewcustis@rangertugs.com.

Thank you

Did Garmin or Fluid Motion install check valves on new models? 2022 R31-Shutter Speed

 

[watson1987]

The fix was either changing to the newer Garmin SmartPump or a check valve. I suspect most new boats (your 2022 included) have the SmartPump, since the older pump was already deprecated when this post was first made