Interenet for the Boat: Why I chose Starlink

True enough.

Although shoving a steel pole in the air with a grounded antenna on top does increase your odds of attracting lightning somewhat 😀
 
Hydraulicjump":31gcvob0 said:
We are in a marina within sight of the Space Needle in Seattle. There is no way we could get a residential Starlink with portability connection (probably years out at this point), so we had to go with a RV Starlink set up (same price basically)

I wouldn't assume this. We are also at EBM, D-dock, I got on the waitlist for residential Starlink in early July using the marina address as my service location (I couldn't really believe it was so recent, but I checked my confirmation e-mails to be sure). We cleared the waitlist last Monday and they shipped my dish on Friday. PM me and I would be happy to swap notes about what that means, practically, for speeds at EBM (RV vs. residential). Will they let you get on the waitlist for residential while you have RV, without paying another deposit and buying a new dish?

What's cool about residential w/portability is that you are fully prioritized in your home cell, and then have RV-like service everywhere else. What's not cool about residential (with or w/o portability) is that it isn't month-to-month service like RV: if you cancel service, you go to the back of the line if you try to renew.

Also, as confirmed with Starlink support, multiple times with multiple reps (just to be sure), their RV hardware and home hardware are identical. It is only the service that is different.

I shared a transit through Ballard locks late in July with a Nordic Tug 42 that had a dish permanently mounted on the stern rail of the upper deck. Looked like a sweet setup.
 
I can confirm that Beagle is the most handsome 31 on D dock in EBM. It helps that it is the first boat you see as you come down the gangway, but its youth and good care really stand out. I look forward to seeing where you put your dishy and am really surprised you got a residential account so quickly. I assumed that given the number of technophiles per square mile in the Seattle area that this was going to be impossible in the near term (a bias supported by some internet sleuthing beforehand).

Still, I am very pleased with the fact that I was able to order the RV package, which I received 3 days later at my home in California, and was able to set it up in 15 minutes and use it so easily in a perfectly miserable marina for cell coverage. I can now set it up and take it down in five.

If all goes to plan, in a few weeks our grey Helmsman 38e will be staring at you from a few slips away.

Jeff
 
Turns out, it is possible to run Starlink off 12volt DC power.

Running on AC/120volt power via the Inverter, Starlink pulls about 57 watts. Having to run the inverter tacks on another 10 watts. 67 watts total.

To power Starlink directly via 12 volt DC power would consume about 41 watts. Still a lot, but represents a 38% savings in power.

You need a 12volt to 48 volt DC to DC converter, and POE injector (Power over Ethernet).
Wire the 12 to 48 volt DC to DC converter to power the POE injector.

The Starlink cable is nothing more than a Cat5E cable with a proprietary connector. Cut the end of it, crimp on an RJ45 connector, plug that into the POE injector, which will provide 48volts of DC power to it with at least 100 watts of power. Then plug the other end of the Ethernet cable into a router such as the Peplink MAX Pro 5G.

As an alternative... you can purchase the Starlink Ethernet adapter. You still need to cut off and crimp on an RJ45 adapter, but you're doing that on the Ethernet adapter instead of the actual Starlink Dish, which is less expensive overall.

Here's a really good write-ups that describe what's necessary to power Starlink via 12 volts DC.
https://www.outsidenomad.com/how-to-power-starlink-satellite-internet-on-12-volt-dc/
 
Am out in mist Oregon with a RV Starlink. It is connected to goal zero 120vac output. The watt meter on the goal zero is running 50 watts +/- 3 speed is 55Mb down 5Mb upload
 
I completed my project to install the Starlink and convert it to 12v. I followed a similar blog post to the one Martin shared. Everything is working as expected and I mounted the electrical components and wiring in a waterproof box under my flybridge helm. Very pleased!

Photos:

https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0hG6XBubsGED9
 
I was just on the Starlink Website and I see that they are now offering RV and Maritime solutions. What I don't understand is why the maritime solution is so expensive. Is it correct to assume that those of you using Starlink are using the RV solution? Or residential?

I was planning on using the hotspot on my phone for Internet connectivity while I cruise, but am also interested in having an always-on connection in case I want to install cameras or smart devices that might need it. Investing in a dedicated WiFi hotspot seems dumb these days when satellite technology is available. But I don't want to spend huge amounts of money when I don't have to.

My current cellphone-based setup, which I used as a seasonal RVer, only costs about $110/month for unlimited voice, text, and data. Of course connectivity and bandwidth throttling are issues depending on where I am.
 
The RV starlink is the same hardware as their normal residential antenna with a different usage plan. It allows you to move it around North America and get internet. Please note, it is not certified for in motion use but many have used that way, including on boats.

The Marine version of starlink is designed specifically for use on commercial ships and is priced accordingly.
 
mlanger":144it604 said:
I was planning on using the hotspot on my phone for Internet connectivity while I cruise, but am also interested in having an always-on connection in case I want to install cameras or smart devices that might need it. Investing in a dedicated WiFi hotspot seems dumb these days when satellite technology is available. But I don't want to spend huge amounts of money when I don't have to.

An always-on Internet solution based on LTE would cost about 6 watts (12 amp-hours a day), while Starlink at best will cost about 42 watts (84amp-hours a day). Underway, this is a large electrical load. On shorepower it wouldn't matter unless you were moored in a boathouse or covered slip.

In an urban area it's likely that an LTE solution would outperform Starlink (due to satellite congestion), where LTE is built to handle the large amount of folks who have cell phones. Along intercostal passages, anchorages, away from marina's and cities, Starlink should outperform LTE.

For an always on solution, an LTE hotspot would provide that, with the ability to add Starlink to the hotspot. Thus, when near port, LTE provides the always on connectivity, and when away from civilization, Starlink could be turned on and used sparingly to get that connectivity you need without draining your batteries.
 
mlanger":14cnn93n said:
I was just on the Starlink Website and I see that they are now offering RV and Maritime solutions. What I don't understand is why the maritime solution is so expensive. Is it correct to assume that those of you using Starlink are using the RV solution? Or residential?

Most folks I know of who have Starlink all have the RV kit. RV and Residential are the same kit.The difference being, anyone can order the RV kit while the residential kit isn't available everywhere (waitlist due to capacity issues with the satellites currently deployed). The RV kit has the option of being able to pause the billing month to month. But has the disadvantage that when used in an urban environment that's oversubscribed, bandwidth will be throttled and may not be usable.

I would assume the reason the maritime solution is so expensive is that they need to launch a bunch of satellites to cover the open ocean.There are a lot less customers traversing the open ocean than who line the intercostal waterways.

"Maritime Starlink is currently available for those willing to pay the upfront price, but coverage is not yet universal. The company’s coverage map shows that currently coastal areas will have service. The service will expand across the oceans starting in Q4 2022 and expand further in Q1 2023. Maritime Starlink also receives inland coverage in many of the countries where it is currently operational."
https://spaceexplored.com/2022/07/07/maritime-starlink/
 
Submariner":121pjhgc said:
I would assume the reason the maritime solution is so expensive is that they need to launch a bunch of satellites to cover the open ocean.There are a lot less customers traversing the open ocean than who line the intercostal waterways.

https://spaceexplored.com/2022/07/07/maritime-starlink/

The maritime starlink is using the same satellites as the the rest. The cost is related to the hardware being based off the business version (bigger dish, higher bandwidth, more robust) and of course the market they are shooting for. Even at the current cost, they are still way cheaper then the competition.

The restrictions on coverage at the moment is mostly due to the current lack of laser links in most of the active satellites. Satellites without lasers only work within line of sight to a ground station. Version 1.5 (current) and version 2.0 (future) satellites have lasers that will allow full coverage by sending data through several satellites before sending the data to ground stations

The poles are getting getting their satellites now, 4th launch to polar orbit is due Tue Aug 30, 2022 10:40 PM PDT SLC-4E, Vandenberg SFB, California, USA

That will help fill in the northern latitudes (both land and water)
 
I think that Joshua Slocum is looking down on us all and shaking his head thinking: "all I had was sextant and a compass". 😉
 
Don’t forget a chart, a compass and sextant is like a gps, it will tell you where you are, but not how to get home 😀
 
Submariner":ujx3bgfz said:
I would assume the reason the maritime solution is so expensive is that they need to launch a bunch of satellites to cover the open ocean.There are a lot less customers traversing the open ocean than who line the intercostal waterways.

"Maritime Starlink is currently available for those willing to pay the upfront price, but coverage is not yet universal. The company’s coverage map shows that currently coastal areas will have service. The service will expand across the oceans starting in Q4 2022 and expand further in Q1 2023. Maritime Starlink also receives inland coverage in many of the countries where it is currently operational."
https://spaceexplored.com/2022/07/07/maritime-starlink/

Nope. The "open ocean" coverage is primarily a consequence of ground stations, laser crosslink, the nature of LEO -- not satellite coverage (at least, not in most places, obviously there are exceptions). With V1 satellites (no laser crosslink), Starlink can't offer service where it doesn't have a ground station (you could get data to the satellite but it can't *go* anywhere). Also, much has been discussed among space geeks as to the stable bandwidth (and latency) of the laser crosslink and whether it is capable of fully replacing ground stations.

Remember, Musk "turned on" Starlink coverage in Ukraine. (Very simplistically), he didn't do this by launching more satellites, but instead by re-tasking ground stations to throttle parts of Europe that had good coverage to accommodate the additional bandwidth from Ukraine.

The cost for the Maritime (primarily) has to do with:

1) The dish is actually an amazing dynamic gimbal that enables offshore coverage. There is a ton of brand-new engineering that went into the hardware (and you need two of them!) I live in Seattle and know a few of the SpaceX engineers (including one who is a boater); they claim that the new terminal will work in any seas where the wave height isn't high enough to obstruct the antenna. That's kind of insane (nobody else can claim that)

2) It's what the market will bear. For offshore, Starlink is still several orders of magnitude cheaper than the next best option. It is the only high-speed option with practically priced unlimited Internet

3) Because of the way the current system is architected, offshore satellites (generally can) reduce the bandwidth of onshore satellites (sometimes more than one). So you're basically paying to use onshore and offshore cells simultaneously (that is, the constellation has to interconnect to a satellite in reach of a ground station, and sometimes has to go through multiple onshore satellites. For example, using your maritime Starlink in the middle of the Pacific might mean that the physical path of your packets is through six other Starlink satellites over the Pacific, but then the ones over San Jose, San Francisco, and Santa Cruz before landing at a ground station (this is a made up example to prove a point, but you get the idea).
 
Nwdiver":2dq2c7u2 said:
Don’t forget a chart, a compass and sextant is like a gps, it will tell you where you are, but not how to get home 😀

Sure, but by the time you've used the chart, compass, and sextant -- you might already be home 😀
 
I'm re-posting this from a Starlink forum. A really interesting read about the motors, disabling of the motors, using Starlink while in motion, and the direction the Starlink dish faces. The following was written by Sean Welsh, Starlink on Boats forum on FB, Sept 2, 2022.

There is evidently quite a bit of confusion about the "tilt" of the standard (residential or RV) Starlink terminal ("Dishy") and I think it might benefit some folks to explain this here in a separate post. (Mostly, I'm tired of typing it over and over in various other threads and I'd like to be able to just link back). I'm going to try to be as non-technical as possible, and we can delve into that in the comments if need be.

For starters, if you are in the temperate latitudes (for example, the continental US), the satellites are everywhere around you. They are not predominantly to the north or south or east or west; there are satellites coming and going almost to the horizon in all directions. As you get closer to the poles, that changes (for now), with fewer and fewer satellites being between you and the pole, but that is not an issue for most users. So anyone telling you that the terminal tilts a certain way because "that's where the satellites are" simply does not understand orbital mechanics.

Secondly it is important to know that Starlink does not exist alone in space or on the airwaves. They share the sky with several other "constellations" of low earth orbit (LEO) satellites, and, moreover, there are myriad other satellites in the sky. Of particular importance is the band of geostationary (also called geosynchronous) satellites that orbit over the equator at an altitude of 22,326 miles. If you've ever had satellite TV like DirecTV or Dish Network, you had a terminal or "dish" (an antenna with a parabolic reflector) that was aimed at one or more of these satellites. There are in fact over 400 satellites in geostationary orbit, meaning they are spaced less than one degree of arc apart. The geostationary orbit is also called the "Clarke Belt," after the famous science fiction writer who described it in the 1940s (the first geosynchronous satellite would not be launched until the 60s). I will use this term here.

Starlink also uses radio frequencies that are very close to or even the same as the frequencies used by other systems and services, including some terrestrial (ground-based) cellular broadband systems (what makes your cell phone work) and, again more importantly, many of the aforementioned geostationary communications satellites. What any and all "licensees" of these frequencies agree to as part of their licenses, whether those are national licenses like from the FCC or internationally-coordinated licenses that involve cooperation between national authorities by means of the ITU (International Telecommunications Union), is that their transmissions will not interfere with the communications of any other system. And when I say "their transmissions," I mean not only the transmissions from the provider's infrastructure like satellites and ground stations, but also from their customers' equipment -- when you buy a satellite terminal, you don't have a license to transmit with it, instead, the license is held by the provider and your terminal operates under that license.

Starlink terminals, both customer terminals and ground stations, are not permitted to transmit in the direction of any other satellite where the frequencies in use might cause "harmful interference." Because most of the satellites in the Clarke Belt would be subjected to such interference, Starlink's terminals simply do not transmit in that direction. That means if your terminal were talking to a satellite as that satellite passed between you and the Clarke Belt, the terminal would stop transmitting until the satellite emerged on the other side. And while the belt itself is just a thin line in the sky, there is a "guard band" on either side of the belt that is off limits. You can think of the Clarke Belt as a giant obstruction in the sky.

With that as a background, let's take a look at the terminal itself. It uses phased-array technology, which I am not going to explain in detail (there are plenty of videos on the web), other than to say that this technology can track, receive from, and transmit to moving satellites without itself physically moving at all. The array in the Starlink terminal is flat (it's not a dish, name notwithstanding), and the limitations of the technology mean that this tracking can happen over an arc of around 110°. That means that, without moving, Dishy's "view" of the sky is a cone with an apex of about 110°.

If you have a clear view to the horizon all the way around you, you have a field of view of 180°, but the terminal can only use 110° of that. So which way should you aim your 110° cone for the best service? The answer is the clearest 110° swath of sky that includes as little of the Clarke Belt as possible. And this is the fundamental reason why, in the northern hemisphere, the terminal will tilt mostly to the north. If residential terminals were installed by professionals, there would be no need for motors to aim the terminal, but because Starlink wanted to make it a plug-and-play end-user installation, they added motors for the terminal to accomplish this alignment by itself.

A consequence of this decision is that, when there became a demand for "portable" terminals, Starlink was able to meet this demand with no changes to the equipment. However, it should be noted that neither the motors nor the cable connectors were designed for constant re-deployment. Many have learned this the hard way with regard to the connectors. A few have learned this about the motor gears as well.

I want to emphasize that the terminal knows where it is and which way it is pointing no matter what you do to it. If it didn't, it would not be able to find and track the satellites. And it absolutely will not transmit in an unpermitted direction, again no matter which way it is aimed. So what happens if you override it's chosen direction by disabling the motors and pointing it some other way? It will work, but it will have less usable sky to work with than it would in the optimum orientation, and performance might suffer.

Lots of folks who want to use the terminal in-motion, notwithstanding the prohibition on this in the TOS, are mounting the terminal flat. This makes a certain amount of sense from several perspectives; it can eliminate the issue of wind pressure on the terminal, and because a moving vehicle may pass numerous obstructions in many directions, and will not typically maintain a constant heading, the orientation initially chosen by the terminal itself will likely have more obstructed time than if it was pointing straight up. In a tacit acknowledgement that some terminals are being used this way, it appears that Starlink is now tilting the terminal flat when it senses motion above a certain speed. But once the vehicle again becomes stationary, such as being parked or docked, it's a safe bet that flat is no longer the optimal aim for the array.
Disclaimer: I do not work for Starlink, and I do not have access to any proprietary or trade secret documents or any of the algorithms Starlink actually uses to manage traffic or aim terminals. But I spent my entire career in telecom, much of it with certificated carriers, and I have been doing satcom for over two decades. I've learned much of what I know about their system by reading their regulatory filings, which requires a good foundation in the craft. The rest comes from my understanding of RF technology, harmful interference, and what's up in the sky.

I do have a Starlink terminal which I use in-motion (mounted in the normal orientation with motors enabled). My boat is not fast enough for the terminal to re-orient under way, and sometimes I have to help it along by stowing and rebooting the terminal once I am on a different heading (under way or at anchor).
 
Had Starlink set up on Beagle at EBM (my marina) today to test. Dishy had to sit on the solar panel as that was one of the only places the radar mast didn't obstruct the sky (according to the Starlink app). I had been thinking about putting dishy on a rail mount towards the aft of the upper deck, but I think the mast is still a problem there.

Now I'm looking at mounts that I can put next to the command bridge stairs.

Also, unfortunately, unless I get it mounted higher, stable Internet is not compatible with sitting on the command bridge. I tried to take a call up there, and it was much less usable.

Starlink was getting 100-75 down / 6-8mbps up with 14-65ms latency. Teams and Zoom both worked pretty well; browsing was as good as cable but a bit more of a lag than fiber. That is much better than a series of different 5G hotspots I jury-rigged to the top of my radar mast; that was getting 9mbps T-Mo, 4mbps VZ, and 6mbps AT&T on a combination of 4 and 5G. EBM has really inconsistent coverage; I'm on D-Dock and it's terrible on the near-shore slips AFAIK. The east end of the marina has generally better coverage.
 
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