Internet for the boat. Why I didn’t choose Starlink.

[Submariner]

I finally completed our Internet for the Boat install on my RT27-OB. We used it for the first time up at Ganges, BC.

This video illustrates how to run cable from the mast into the boat. It also illustrates how to run cable inside the cabin. I’ve been working on this project since October, planning, designing, and preparing; And was waiting for warmer weather.

The LTE router pulls 6 watts as measured on a battery monitor. I can run it 24/7 as a result. I am seeing over 100mbs with T-mobile. I also use ATT. The high gain antenna boosts the LTE and WI-FI signals considerably allowing me to get higher bandwidth at further distances.

I just bought a ROKU for the boat TV. It’s powered via USB port, connects via Wi-Fi to the boat and we can watch YouTube. 🙂
No inverter required. I can also leverage the Wi-Fi to piggy back on guest marina Wi-Fi and save some usage on my data plan.

We disconnected Cable TV at home in 2010.

What’s next? I bought a 12 volt powered sound bar to connect to the TV for better sound. Now to figure out where to install it.

Internet for our RT27-OB LTE/Wi-Fi
https://youtu.be/JGnX9-5VAsY

Additional info is posted on our website as well.
https://www.letsgochannelsurfing.com/internet-for-the-boat


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[watson1987]

I have a similar setup with a high-gain antenna to a cellular router.

I'm not sure about the setup on the R27, but the R31 cabin TV HDMI port was already used to duplicate the chart plotter. In order to plug in my ROKU I ended up buying one of these, which is powered directly off the TV

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08K8 ... UTF8&psc=1

I love the idea about an additional sound bar - the audio is hard to hear while underway. Have a link to the one you went with?

 

[Submariner]

I have a similar setup with a high-gain antenna to a cellular router.

I'm not sure about the setup on the R27, but the R31 cabin TV HDMI port was already used to duplicate the chart plotter. In order to plug in my ROKU I ended up buying one of these, which is powered directly off the TV

I love the idea about an additional sound bar - the audio is hard to hear while underway. Have a link to the one you went with?

There's nothing using the HDMI port on our TV as I've no intentions of mirroring it off the chart plotter. We only use the TV for an hour or two before bed. Usually to watch a DVD movie, and now we'll be able stream YouTube.

The max power the speaker will consume is 10amps, which is way too high. I suspect watching a movie at an audible volume will be substantially less than that. I plan on connecting this to the boat just for the purposes of evaluating it's electrical draw before I put in the effort of running 12volt wire from the port to starboard side of the boat.

The soundbar I picked up is an Ecoxgear SE18. It's water proof, 12volt DC, and relatively compact/small. I might even find it great for just streaming music throughout the day via bluetooth. The location I'm looking to mount it, I'm hoping will cover music during the day, and TV/YouTube/movie during the evening.
https://ecoxgear.com/products/soundextreme-18

 

[Nwdiver]

Can’t you wire the tv to the existing stereo? Not as good quality (no base) but should be loud enough

 

[Submariner]

Can’t you wire the tv to the existing stereo? Not as good quality (no base) but should be loud enough

GREAT question!

The speaker/stereo setup the boat came with has an internal amp in the Fusion radio. That internal amp only supports 2 zones, while the radio itself supports more than two. We have 6 factory installed speakers. Zone 1 is v-berth and cabin (4 speakers). Zone 2 is the cockpit (2 speakers).

If I add an external amp (they have a small, low wattage amp) that'd be perfect for adding a zone, I can get a 3rd zone so I can split the cabin and v-berth. (My wife likes to lay down in the v-berth, but doesn't like listening to my music when I'm in the cabin working). I wouldn't want the TV playing in the cabin as well as the v-berth which is what would happen today.

 

[BB marine]

We have two nice sounding Blue tooth speakers that we use when we are out relaxing in the dingy or bike riding. We are using our cell phone and connecting to the blue tooth speaker listening to a Cubs game or music. I was looking for a way to use this speaker and connect to the TV on the boat to get a better sound while streaming/watching TV. The speakers have their own power source and are rechargeable using very little (Boat Battery to recharge) I found the Blue tooth transmitters that seems like the answer. Simple plug and play and the sound from the Bose speaker should be a huge improvement over the TV speaker. ( I have not used it yet, our boat is still in the get ready to cruise the loop mode. Its still in the building!!! Hopefully a few more weeks and we will be Floating again.

 

[vonSchtupp]

Although on shore I am a "Roku guy", I chose an Amazon Firestick to stream on the boat because it will output audio to bluetooth. This lets me either play streamed tv audio over the onboard Fusion stereo, or to any other bluetooth speakers (or headphones/ear buds) without having to add another device connected to the tv.

 

[Submariner]

Although on shore I am a "Roku guy", I chose an Amazon Firestick to stream on the boat because it will output audio to bluetooth. This lets me either play streamed tv audio over the onboard Fusion stereo, or to any other bluetooth speakers (or headphones/ear buds) without having to add another device connected to the tv.

We run AppleTV at home. Unfortunately, there's not a 12volt DC powered Apple TV. There's a "hack" I found on youtube on how to take apart an AppleTV and convert it to 12volt, but I was looking for something simple/easy.

It was also important to me that the device be powered off USB port, to keep the power draw low. I did not want to have to run the inverter.

I looked at the Firestick and went ROKU instead for the much simpler interface and the less amount of ads "watch this, stream that.." that ROKU offers over the Firestick. Being on LTE, I'd rather use my data plan for watching content instead of Amazon streaming ad's for stuff I'm not going to watch. It's primarily YouTube content we're after anyway.

 

[bsaitz]

since this group seems to have good know-how. i have both a chromecast and fire stick and an HDMI splitter for the cabin TV. i have been trying to get either stick to work to stream (download offline) content from my phone to the TV but not getting it working.

i guess my goal is to, for example, download a netflix movie and then stream it to the TV without any need for an internet connection.

any ideas?

great discussion 🙂

 

[SJI Sailor]

IIRC, you could cast from a phone to Chromecast if you have the following: join both phone and Chromecast to the same Wifi network (e.g. the Garmin network on your boat), and use a Chromecast enabled video player app on your phone (not all are).

The following article suggests a different way, no WiFi required: https://www.cloudwards.net/how-to-use-chromecast-without-wifi/. Good luck!

 

[bsaitz]

Thanks! havent tried chromecast and phone to plotter. not sure traffic will traverse but worth trying!

 

[SJI Sailor]

Good point -- not sure whether Garmin will route between devices but worth a try. The guest mode looks promising otherwise. Will be interested to hear if you solve it!

 

[Submariner]

I installed the ROKU to the TV on the boat. Now I can watch Lets go channel surfing onboard. 🙂

To stream YouTube, I'm seeing about 3mbs which equates to about 1.2gb per hour. I have 100gb/unlimited plan with ATT and I get 50gb/mo with T-Mobile. T-Mobile is usually faster than ATT around Puget Sound and the San Juan Islands.

I also added some more screen shots of performance/benchmark testing as we motored from Everett over to Port Ludlow yesterday. My high score was coming around Possession Bar at 25 knots, I hit 173mbs. When we got around Hanville, the router connection failed a health-check with T-mobile and switched over to ATT, automatically. (which caused a disruption in connectivity). I benchmarked 0.5mbs on t-mobile on my phone. Connected back to the boat WIFI, which was now on ATT, and was getting 36mbs. This illustrates the importance of having multiple SIM cards for diversity.

Lets go channel surfing on YouTube on Channel Surfing!
https://www.letsgochannelsurfing.co...kxcpitky-ccce3da4-64eb-438f-86a3-9e1abe16a754

ROKU on the boat
https://www.letsgochannelsurfing.co...kxcpitky-ca30932b-03b4-4dcb-adca-aaa1d50713cd

Possession bar
https://www.letsgochannelsurfing.co...kxcpitky-63a04ac1-c585-4cf2-a473-ac98fb4815fb

Hansville
https://www.letsgochannelsurfing.co...kxcpitky-70360e39-7824-47c3-ab70-c99ed7bdf7bf

Port Ludlow
https://www.letsgochannelsurfing.co...kxcpitky-051b81c2-b029-46fd-9374-accb86b72d18

 

[Submariner]

In keeping with the title of this thread I started... I talk about this at the end of the video we just published as well.

I did look at Starlink. The reason(s) I went this direction instead are as follows:
* I can have Internet when I'm doing 25 knots. Starlink currently requires you be stationary.
* The power draw for the LTE/5G router is under 20 watts. The battery monitor shows me it consumes 6 watts.
* Starlink is 100 watts to boot up, and pulls 35-60 watts (as confirmed by someone who has Starlink).
* LTE/5G is continually getting better. 5G is currently being expanded. Speeds above 100mbs are realistic.
* I'm an inter-coastal cruiser. My gas tank keeps me within about 60 miles of shore. My boating lifestyle keeps me even closer to shore (within about 15 miles). The mobility antenna re-shapes that cell signal to increase its power significantly allowing me to be further away and still maintain signal.
* The LTE/5G router has a WAN port that I could plug Starlink into at some point in the future.

Starlink is not available everywhere today. And where it is available, there are capacity issues. Not really much different than LTE/5G. Eventually Starlink will get there, but I also look at the consumer market which is what funds expansion and new tech. Everybody reading this has a cell phone that connects to LTE. Starlink has a much smaller market. But Elon Musk knows what he's doing and I expect Starlink to be mainstream one day in the not too distant future.

I've spent an enormous amount of time looking at LTE frequencies that the carriers use, LTE and 5G coverage maps, cell data plans, and pairing that with the Mobility 42G high-gain antenna. (think of a flashlight, it's the same energy but is more intense when you focus and direct that beam of light...) The antenna chosen and the LTE/5G router all must support the correct LTE/5G frequencies.

For Puget Sound and the San Juan Islands... it's the specific cellular frequencies I'm after.
T-Mobile has the 617mhz band for LTE/5G which allows them to throw more bandwidth much further. Band-71 (617 - 698mhz)) is licensed specifically to T-Mobile and was a key feature I was looking for in my setup. The lower frequencies are capable of traveling much farther distances than the higher frequencies.

T-Mobile Frequencies:
LTE: Band 2, 4, 12, 66 and 71
5G: Band n41 and n71

ATT Frequencies
LTE: Band 2, 4, 5, 12, 14, 17, 29, 30, 46, 66
5G: Band n5, n77

The Mobility 42G antenna has a 4.4dbi gain in the 617 - 960 mhz range (Band 71). That's a little more than a doubling of power.

The Mobility 42G antenna offers the following gain per frequency range.
Note, 3dBi of gain doubles the power.
Cellular Frequencies
4.4 dBi: 617-960MHz
7.8 dBi: 1710-2700MHz
7.9 dBi: 3400-4200MHz
8.2 dBi: 5000-6000MHz

WIFI Frequencies
5.0 dBi: 2400-2500Mhz
7.5 dBi: 5000-6000Mhz

Mobility 42G antenna datasheet.
https://download.peplink.com/resources/pepwave_mobility_42G_datasheet.pdf

When we head up to Canada and SE Alaska, T-Mobile doesn't have a presence there, so ATT will be the preferred carrier. But for Puget Sound and San Juan's, T-Mobile thus far is outperforming ATT on performance for me.

This setup also improves just general WIFI connectivity, as I can walk the dock and still be connected to wireless on the boat. I can also piggy back on marina guest WIFI with this setup and use that to provide Internet for the boat.

Installing Internet On A Boat: Why We didn't do Starlink
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGnX9-5VAsY?v=JGnX9-5VAsY&list=UU2KtMh8hFWqMp17nedTw-oA

All the specific details of this solution may be found here:
https://www.letsgochannelsurfing.com/lte-wifi-tech-talk

 

[Submariner]

We just published a short 6 minute video that outlines exactly what we installed, why we didn't do Starlink, and illustrates the great performance we are seeing using LTE. It's nice to be able to have Internet while we're underway, and it's great to be able to run it all the time since it pulls 6-8 watts at 12 volts DC.

I've got a ROKU setup now on the TV to the boat and am watching YouTube onboard now.

I've got a 12 volt sound bar to install and just figured out how I'm going to get 12volt DC into the port side v-berth to power it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-te5kYpIglg?v=-te5kYpIglg&list=UU2KtMh8hFWqMp17nedTw-oA

 

[briandunnington]

I guess this is specifically for @Submariner or anybody else with a Peplink router that supports wifi. I was reading an article (https://onboardwireless.com/How-to-Choo ... t_b_3.html) and it mentioned that several routers support using public wifi as the source (and I know you mentioned it here and in your videos as well), but when I read the product documentation, it mentions a 'WAN license' and appears to tie it to the PrimeCare subscription (see quote below) - does that mean I would have to keep up the subscription in order to be allowed to keep using public wifi as the internet source? I assume you have the PrimeCare subscription since you just bought your router, but will you have to keep paying for subsequent years to keep this feature active?

"Included Failover and WAN License

A failover software license and related WAN feature set for UBR LTE is included as part of the PrimeCare subscription. The price includes the first year of PrimeCare. This enables the WAN Ethernet port and the ability to use Wi-Fi WAN to connect to public Wi-Fi access points. With this feature, you can also set up rules to prioritize WAN connections and have the ability to failover to alternate WAN connection methods. If you just want an LTE router and do not need to also connect to an external public Wi-Fi access point (e.g. marina Wi-Fi) then this license is not required. This license can be purchased at time of sale or later if needed."

 

[Submariner]

I guess this is specifically for @Submariner or anybody else with a Peplink router that supports wifi. I was reading an article (https://onboardwireless.com/How-to-Choo ... t_b_3.html) and it mentioned that several routers support using public wifi as the source (and I know you mentioned it here and in your videos as well), but when I read the product documentation, it mentions a 'WAN license' and appears to tie it to the PrimeCare subscription (see quote below) - does that mean I would have to keep up the subscription in order to be allowed to keep using public wifi as the internet source? I assume you have the PrimeCare subscription since you just bought your router, but will you have to keep paying for subsequent years to keep this feature active?

"Included Failover and WAN License

A failover software license and related WAN feature set for UBR LTE is included as part of the PrimeCare subscription. The price includes the first year of PrimeCare. This enables the WAN Ethernet port and the ability to use Wi-Fi WAN to connect to public Wi-Fi access points. With this feature, you can also set up rules to prioritize WAN connections and have the ability to failover to alternate WAN connection methods. If you just want an LTE router and do not need to also connect to an external public Wi-Fi access point (e.g. marina Wi-Fi) then this license is not required. This license can be purchased at time of sale or later if needed."

I worked directly with Doug at onboard wireless on my Peplink MAX BR1 PRO 5g router and Mobility 42G antenna. He's responsible for talking me into mounting the antenna up on the mast. He and I pre-ordered the MAX BR1 Pro 5g router and waited several months for it's release last fall. We were both setting ours up at the same time last year. I bought my setup through Doug.

I had a MAX BR1 Mk2 Peplink router (Cat6) with the Mobility 22G antenna (I still have it for sale if anybody's interested). I was contemplating mounting it permanently... When the BR1 Pro 5g and 42G antenna came out last year, that's what pushed me over the edge. It was a pain in the arse to mount that antenna on the mast. But being brand new tech, at the very beginning of it's lifecycle is what did it. That told me that I'd get the value out of it for the work I'd have to put into mounting it correctly on the boat.

The UBR LTE model you mentioned requires an add-on license for WAN. That's a different product line. The MAX BR1 Pro has no such license. It's all included. The only add-on is just prime-care which is extended warranty and speed fusion.

I'm still playing with speed fusion. HA (high availability) failover and WAN Bonding is kinda cool as it'll bond two cell connections (say you had T-Mobile and ATT) it can bond them together for twice the performance or for seamless failover. But that requires 2 modems and the MAX BR1 Pro 5g has only 1 modem with 2 sim cards. I can have a disruptive fail over between carriers, as I can only talk to one at a time. If I connect to guest marina WIFI, I could technically bond or use HA between WIFI and Cellular. But that's not really much value to me with how I use it.

The WAN smoothing may be of value though. I'm still playing with that features. These are all SD-WAN features (WAN optimization) and requires a connection to cloud fusion via VPN to function. They also sell that based on bandwidth consumed.

 

[Submariner]

I guess this is specifically for @Submariner or anybody else with a Peplink router that supports wifi. I was reading an article (https://onboardwireless.com/How-to-Choo ... t_b_3.html)
"

That's a great article.

"Using external antennas on LTE and Wi-Fi routers presents an interesting dilemma. On the one hand, your router will perform best if it is connected to high gain antennas installed outside the cabin as high as possible and away from other vertical metal objects. On the other hand, the longer the cable run, the more loss that will occur to the extent that the gain from the external antennas could be wiped out by the loss due to a long cable run." -Doug Miller

This was the problem to solve in my case to get the best performance out of the setup. High gain antenna mounted high on the mast, and don't extend those antenna cables at all.

"Having six LMR-400 cables for the LTE and Wi-Fi ports would require a cable chase and deck opening about three inches in diameter. That is probably unworkable for most recreational boats." - Doug Miller

To solve this problem I found Scanstrut' DS-Multi clamshell allowing me to run 8 cables through the roof in a very compact way.

 

[Submariner]

We're anchored in Hunter Bay this evening, East side of Lopez Island.

This is our first official overnight anchoring with the Peplink MAX BR1 Pro 5g router and the Peplink Mobiity 42G high-gain antenna.

My iPhone 13 with T-mobile. Less than 3mbs

MAX BR1 Pro & Mobility 42G antenna installed on the boat
* with ATT. Less than 3mbs
* with T-Mobile. 46mbs.

I'm on my laptop posting this.
"Working from boat" tomorrow, Thursday and Friday.
Shrimping Thursday/Friday and Saturday mornings. 🙂

Electrical draw: 8 watts.

 

[gregc]

What kind of data plans do you have? I suspect one for each sim card?