Johnson 5.0 variable speed water pump + 5gal accumulator =?

dbsea

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2021
Messages
1,060
Fluid Motion Model
R-23 (Outboard)
Vessel Name
HALCYON
MMSI Number
368365270
So I recently decided to add a larger accumulator tank to my setup, replacing the 2gal tank the previous owner installed with a 5gal tank. I also have the 5gpm Johnson variable speed pump. Since adding the larger tank, I've noticed that my shower water pressure in the head is very low unless I open it all the way up to the "hot" setting. Water pressure is fine everywhere else on either hot/cold. The accumulator is after the pump, on the aft side of the T which also feeds the hot water heater. I've read over the last few days that both a variable speed pump and an accumulator tank may not be the best combination. Wondering which I should get rid of to get better shower water pressure...
 
Pressure and volume are two different beasts. Pressure will equalize (with only slight variations) throughout your system. Based on what you've said about other fixtures not having the same issue, I will bet that there is an obstruction on the cold side of your shower. Probably in the cartridge.

This will give the illusion of low 'pressure', when it's actually low 'volume' - which is usually an obstruction.

I would remove the cartridge and check for obstructions.

Hopefully it's an easy fix! 😀
 
Brian98133":3cqj0lfv said:
Pressure and volume are two different beasts. Pressure will equalize (with only slight variations) throughout your system. Based on what you've said about other fixtures not having the same issue, I will bet that there is an obstruction on the cold side of your shower. Probably in the cartridge.

This will give the illusion of low 'pressure', when it's actually low 'volume' - which is usually an obstruction.

I would remove the cartridge and check for obstructions.

Hopefully it's an easy fix! 😀

Hi Brian,

Is the cartridge in the mixer? I already replaced the shower head which didn’t fix it. I’m not super familiar with the pieces and parts of these plumbing components…
 
Unfortunately, I am unsure of what valve RT may hav used for your shower... But the short answer is 'yes' it's in the mixer.

Maybe RT can provide actual breakdowns on the valve used on your shower? But generally, there's a set-screw on the handle that will provide access to the valve once the handle is off... then there's an escutcheon that is either screwed on, or just 'pulled' off, which will access the nut or holder that is holding the cartridge in place. Once removed (with the pump switch off), the cartridge will be removed by pulling the cartridge out (by means of 'yanking' on the 'stem' to which the handle was affixed).

This is very general, in that these are the basics of how to remove a cartridge.... Some mfgr's require specific methods in which their cartridges can be removed.

The shower head is fed by both hot and cold, and it cannot distinguish between the two. So replacing the head will warrant no answers. The issue is most likely within the valve itself. Hopefully in the cartridge... but if that proves unrestricted, it is probably within the cold line itself. This is less than likely, however. in my experience, which is my profession, it's going to be in the cartridge.
 
Thanks, I’ll take a look when I’m back in Seattle Sunday. Had to fly east urgently to deal
with an elderly grandparents failing health. From what I’ve read on this forum, historically fluid motion used a brand called Fontana for the head hardware. Not sure if that’s the case on my 2016 C30. If I can’t fix the issue and it needs a new valve / cartridge, I’ll likely need to replace in which case I’ll use a different brand and allocate a day to crawl around in the cave to do it… 🙂
 
Brian98133":yd1fkrfz said:
Unfortunately, I am unsure of what valve RT may hav used for your shower... But the short answer is 'yes' it's in the mixer.

Maybe RT can provide actual breakdowns on the valve used on your shower? But generally, there's a set-screw on the handle that will provide access to the valve once the handle is off... then there's an escutcheon that is either screwed on, or just 'pulled' off, which will access the nut or holder that is holding the cartridge in place. Once removed (with the pump switch off), the cartridge will be removed by pulling the cartridge out (by means of 'yanking' on the 'stem' to which the handle was affixed).

This is very general, in that these are the basics of how to remove a cartridge.... Some mfgr's require specific methods in which their cartridges can be removed.

The shower head is fed by both hot and cold, and it cannot distinguish between the two. So replacing the head will warrant no answers. The issue is most likely within the valve itself. Hopefully in the cartridge... but if that proves unrestricted, it is probably within the cold line itself. This is less than likely, however. in my experience, which is my profession, it's going to be in the cartridge.

Sent you a PM on this now that i'm back. Since the existing ITC valve is pressure balancing, and the issue with the flow is on the cold side, wondering if the accumulator and its pressure drop as it drains is causing the issue. I got a new valve/mixer, but it's not a easy task to get into the quarter berth to replace it. trying to minimize work. i got a t-valve I can install to shut off the line to the accumulator and see if that rectifies the issue as well.

Dave
 
Note: Sent this as an answer to the PM, which I admittedly rarely check. Thought it might be of benefit in the thread:

Hi Dave... apologies on a tardy reply. We were spending a few nights at the Poulsbo marina, and I generally try to go 'off grid' when boating. 😀

Although I can't truly rule anything out at this point, I highly doubt that the addition of the accumulator is cause of your issue. Mostly because the hot side is delivering decent water pressure/volume, right? Both hot and cold water lines benefit from the accumulator, so what happens to one side will happen to the other as well. Pressure balancing spools generally let all cold water go directly through the valve mostly unimpeded. What they do is use the pressure from the cold line to actuate the hot going through the cartridge. When the cold pressure drops, the spool slides to one side and diminishes the hot volume as well, which helps keep one from getting scalded. Note that it doesn't 'stop' the hot water... but depending on brand, it just slows it down a little. The cold water does pass through the spool, so if debris got stuck in the spool, it could choke the cold water only, whilst letting full hot pass by.

ITC is generally an RV/Marine valve which is rarely used in residential plumbing (which is where my expertise lies), so I don't have a good parts breakdown at my disposal. I'm sure you'll be able to find one online, however.

Within this valve is not only the main mixer cartridge, which houses a pressure balancing spool, but on either side of the main cylinder should also be integral stop valves, which are simply flat-blade screwdriver stops. One on each side, cold and hot. If you were to remove the large escutcheon (typically removed by removing the handle (allen set screw, mainly) and 2 screws), you will see these stops on either side of the main center cylinder if your valve has these (optional, but common).

The first thing I would check is to see if the cold side screwdriver stop is all the way open. Could be as simple as that! However, they don't close on their own, so unless the valve has been serviced recently, it's unlikely it's closed. However, debris can wedge itself in this valve's body and create this issue, so it's probably a good idea to remove the integral screwdriver stop stem to check. The screwdriver slotted stem sits within a bonnet which is hex, so you can remove the bonnet and stem with a deep socket.

I would check there first. In addition, if you have someone handy, you can use a bucket and have someone turn on the pump after the stop stem has been removed to see how good the flow is at that point. I have a feeling that it will spray out heartily, so be prepared to have them shut the pump off quickly. Also, I like to put some tinfoil under the opening so no water makes its way into the wall cavity...

If the flow is good there, then it's definitely the main cartridge. If the cold just dribbles out of the open hole where the integral stop stem was... there's a problem somewhere between the pump and that shower valve. Unlikely though... If that's the case, let me know and we can discuss options.

If, once you remove the stop stem, you find debris... just clean out what you can (typically, using the flushing method above will do the trick) and put the stop back together to see if that solved the problem.

If the flow is good and there's debris in the cartridge, you might be able to remove the cartridge as I mentioned in the post and find debris that you can remove or flush out. Try that and replace the cartridge and test for flow.

If you don't see debris in the cartridge, then it's probably stuck within the pressure balancing spool, which is rarely accessible without breaking the cartridge. Thus, the need for a new cartridge.

You mention 'replacing the valve'? If it's just a debris issue, which is the most likely case, then replacing the entire valve (inside the wall) is not necessary. With the main cartridge and screwdriver stops removed, what's left in the wall is just a valve body, which rarely goes bad. So no need to replace. Unless the cartridge is problematic to find... which is unlikely though, as ITC uses (or used at one point anyway) knockoffs of large companies like Delta, Moen, and Price Pfister. In most cases, replacing the cartridge with their main company's OEM is better than OEM ITC parts.

I hope this all makes sense. Let me know how it goes! Also, I would think it beneficial for this info to be in the main thread for all to benefit... IF any of this works! :mrgreen:

Good luck!
Brian
 
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