Launch ramp safety

Good point Dan! I was way over-thinking it. Since their are no parking brakes on the front wheels, it really doesn't matter if the whole drive train is locked up solid. As far as braking is concerned.
However, if sliding down a slippery ramp is a problem, having the whole drivetrain locked to the braked back wheels will add the additional traction of the front tires on the ground. I personaly have experienced a situation where I had set the parking brake on a slippery slope but could not take my foot off the brake pedal without sliding down the hill. Only the braking of all 4 wheels held me in place. It was a 2wd pickup with no weight in the back. In that instance, a locked-up 4wd would have helped.
 
YukonRon":248dnsc1 said:
Good point Dan! I was way over-thinking it. Since their are no parking brakes on the front wheels, it really doesn't matter if the whole drive train is locked up solid. As far as braking is concerned.
However, if sliding down a slippery ramp is a problem, having the whole drivetrain locked to the braked back wheels will add the additional traction of the front tires on the ground. I personaly have experienced a situation where I had set the parking brake on a slippery slope but could not take my foot off the brake pedal without sliding down the hill. Only the braking of all 4 wheels held me in place. It was a 2wd pickup with no weight in the back. In that instance, a locked-up 4wd would have helped.
Yes. On ice etc more tires equals more grip.
 
NorthernFocus":7sn0s6of said:
Yes. On ice etc more tires equals more grip.
Or on a slimy, algae-covered boat ramp exposed by a low tide.
 
Cracker39,
I love the fact you are looking for advice on how to use the boat the way you want vs. whether or not you should do it at all. Starting with the truck yes I would put it in 4 wheel low and set the E brake and add your blocks if you prefer. For a 3500 compared to the weight of your boat it should be just fine. I back mind down a 12 percent grade into my shop with a Duramax 2500 and my weight is much higher than yours. Don’t ask we to explain how but mine holds much better locked in 4 low with the brake on. We do the same on the ramp. I would not trust mine in 2 wheel drive.

From the boat side I am not a fan of rollers as we drive on and drive off. I put Gatorbaks instead of carpet as they wear better but other options are available and carpet works too. Many options are available for how you hook up the bow hook to the winch. I have had success will all the ones mentioned and on some boats like our ski Nautique power out together with the driver not hooked up at all. I have not tried the electric winch but watched a guy have success with that one too. Frankly if you get that close to the bow stop how you hook it is a personal preference for convenience. If I were in your neck of the woods I would welcome the opportunity to help you work something out. There is definitely a solution here for you. Go for it and good luck!
 
My assumption, with respect to the emergency brake, is that it should be adequate to prevent rotation of the rear wheels, without assist from the parking pawl in the tranny. Unfortunately, this was found to be in error when the truck was new (2003). The emergency brake would not hold the truck on a slight uphill grade when parking with my 8,400 lb Airstream trailer. This frequently caused the parking pawl to take part of the load. The GMC tech that inspected the brakes (—-under warranty) reported that the emergency brake was operating properly but that the lack of “holding” power - especially in reverse - was a known design flaw for this particular truck. The truck is rated to tow 14,500 lbs but the emergency brake is apparently incapable of holding much more than the weight of the truck alone. That said, I continued to tow the Airstream for the next ten years, choosing my parking sites carefully to avoid parking upgrade. I also carried a commercial set of wheel chocks, which I would use on occasion, and which I am still using today under the front wheels on Boat ramps. The truck does have two 4wd positions - one of which can be shifted on the fly, and the other which requires stopping and passing the tranny through neutral to engage the “stump-pulling” gear. The ability to shift on the fly is the only feature that makes the 4wd in this truck superior to earlier 4wd trucks, as making a sharp turn on dry pavement will still cause binding. It is not really a full-time 4wd system. The load on the front axle, by scale weight measurements, is over 1,000 lbs greater than on the rear axle with the duals when the truck is not loaded. The idea that more rubber on the road makes for greater traction is generally untrue for a dually when lightly loaded. The simple fact is, the duals share the load and, on slippery ramps or icey roads, they generally have less traction - acting more like big skis. This is why few people use a dually for snowplowing here in New England - unless they have a sander in the bed. The duals will ride up on the snow rather than dig down for traction. The weight differential is the reason why, I currently place the chocks under the front wheels at a boat ramp rather than the rear - i.e., more bang for the buck. If you watch You Tube videos of cars and trucks that have gone in the drink on boat ramps, invariably you’ll see that the rear wheels are still not turning as they drag the vehicle out of the water. Dual wheels, on an algae-covered ramp, can be a serious problem - but if some of the emergency brakes’ holding power can be transferred to the front wheels it would add another factor of safety. That is why I sought to find out just how the 4wd system functioned. Kindly forgive the long-winded dissertation.
 
cracker39":1mdkh0po said:
My assumption, with respect to the emergency brake, is that it should be adequate to prevent rotation of the rear wheels, without assist from the parking pawl in the tranny. Unfortunately, this was found to be in error when the truck was new (2003). The emergency brake would not hold the truck on a slight uphill grade when parking with my 8,400 lb Airstream trailer. This frequently caused the parking pawl to take part of the load. The GMC tech that inspected the brakes (—-under warranty) reported that the emergency brake was operating properly but that the lack of “holding” power - especially in reverse - was a known design flaw for this particular truck. The truck is rated to tow 14,500 lbs but the emergency brake is apparently incapable of holding much more than the weight of the truck alone. That said, I continued to tow the Airstream for the next ten years, choosing my parking sites carefully to avoid parking upgrade. I also carried a commercial set of wheel chocks, which I would use on occasion, and which I am still using today under the front wheels on Boat ramps. The truck does have two 4wd positions - one of which can be shifted on the fly, and the other which requires stopping and passing the tranny through neutral to engage the “stump-pulling” gear. The ability to shift on the fly is the only feature that makes the 4wd in this truck superior to earlier 4wd trucks, as making a sharp turn on dry pavement will still cause binding. It is not really a full-time 4wd system. The load on the front axle, by scale weight measurements, is over 1,000 lbs greater than on the rear axle with the duals when the truck is not loaded. The idea that more rubber on the road makes for greater traction is generally untrue for a dually when lightly loaded. The simple fact is, the duals share the load and, on slippery ramps or icey roads, they generally have less traction - acting more like big skis. This is why few people use a dually for snowplowing here in New England - unless they have a sander in the bed. The duals will ride up on the snow rather than dig down for traction. The weight differential is the reason why, I currently place the chocks under the front wheels at a boat ramp rather than the rear - i.e., more bang for the buck. If you watch You Tube videos of cars and trucks that have gone in the drink on boat ramps, invariably you’ll see that the rear wheels are still not turning as they drag the vehicle out of the water. Dual wheels, on an algae-covered ramp, can be a serious problem - but if some of the emergency brakes’ holding power can be transferred to the front wheels it would add another factor of safety. That is why I sought to find out just how the 4wd system functioned. Kindly forgive the long-winded dissertation.
I guess you should have been long winded to start with 😀

Definitely two different answers.

Will leaving it in 4wd assist with the poor EB to prevent the truck ROLLING down the ramp? No. Regardless of transmission.

Will it help prevent the truck SLIDING down the ramp. I'd say with that age truck highly likely the answer is yes, just as you surmised to start with. But someone knowledgeable on the specific drive train would need to verify. I'd google up a forum for that model truck. I'd be surprised if there aren't plenty of gear heads more than willing to share their knowledge of that particular model. Or just test it. Jack the front wheels off the ground with the EB engaged and see if you can turn the front wheels.

If one is interested in optimizing safety around the ramp, one thing that is good practice is to never stop in an intermediate position on the ramp. One thing that seems to escape many people is that without significant momentum the truck will stop sliding (and likely the EB will stop slipping) when the boat floats. So if the truck is already at the edge of the water when something starts slipping it's not likely to go far. Different story if the truck is left out of gear, no EB set, etc. But if it's an issue of sliding on slime or the EB won't hold the total weight of boat/trailer then it's highly unlikely one will sink a tow vehicle once it has stopped at the bottom of the ramp. But if you stop half way up/down the ramp and something gives it's Katy bar the door.
 
I appreciate all of the comments and, like Dan suggested, I’ve been hoping a knowlegeable gearhead would jump in here. Said gearhead might even have a possible fix for GMC’s undersized emergency brake. I mentioned earlier that I was planning to install a 10’ extendable tongue on the trailer and that’s still in the works for this summer. That extension will also include the safety handrail I was considering that will run from the hitch to the vicinity of the winch ——- too easy to fabricate and no reason not too! I don’t mind getting wet and with that setup I should be able to bring the bow eye within reach. Granted, a bunk trailer, in lieu of my rollers, would work just as well for my intended use but, lacking the horsepower to drive this little boat up to an automatic latch, and not being able to get out of the boat afterwards to drive the truck up the ramp, makes the automatic systems somewhat worthless to me. Keep in mind that I’m an Old F—t with a lovely old wife who refuses to give up his love of boats.
 
In my initial post I talked about using an old pair of golf shoes to prevent slipping on a boat ramp. It occurred to me yesterday that the “slip on” ice grips that we use to walk on ice during the winter are perfect for walking on a potentially slippery boat ramp. Southerners may have to buy them online but they’re readily available in stores here during the winter months. Just slip them on an old pair of shoes (—-probably with hard soles) and you’re good to go.
 
cracker39":31knbq78 said:
...Just slip them on an old pair of shoes (—-probably with hard soles) and you’re good to go.
Most of them also work on tennis/running shoes. For use on hard surfaces the ones with really small spikes work best.
 
NorthernFocus":2520h60f said:
cracker39":2520h60f said:
...Just slip them on an old pair of shoes (—-probably with hard soles) and you’re good to go.
Most of them also work on tennis/running shoes. For use on hard surfaces the ones with really small spikes work best.

OK - I usually use them on my boots, so I was a bit concerned about whether or not they would stay on anything with a softer sole.
 
Cracker39, my Land Cruiser has a dedicated emergency brake on the driveshaft. When in 4 wh. it brakes front and rear wheels. Northern Focus is correct in that an emergency brake will only provide X amount of braking force. However if you are talking about slippage(wheels sliding) as on ice or a steep slippery ramp then being locked in 4 wheel drive will assist because the front wheels are not free wheeling.

The trick another member mentioned - leaving a line attached and slamming the brakes on when the boat floats off works good as well. I have used it when singlehanding and also when launching at a ramp with no dock.

Another trick I might add is - when retrieving, don't struggle with the winch on the ramp trying to get right up to the bow stop. Drive up onto the flat parking lot and slam the brakes on. The weight of the boat will cause it to slide right up against the bow roller on the winch post.

There is a catwalk you can buy that bolts to your trailer tongue. One of these might help.

Regards, Rob
 
I can highly recommend putting away all pride and asking for help at the ramp. I would never do a single handed launch and retrieve. My wife has the sole responsibility to sit in the truck with her foot on the brake and the E brake on and the truck in park. I do all the rest.

I've used other boaters several times in windy conditions to help and I've frequently been asked by other boaters at the ramp if I'd help and I'm always willing and pleased and think more of them because they recognize that some help is needed to be safe, and more often than not, on a crowded ramp, having an extra hand can get the job done quickly and the whole line up of people waiting will be glad.

I do drive my R21 classic onto the trailer but always end up with a foot or so of cranking to do to snug it up to the stop. The 21 is so responsive to the rudder that I've never had a problem even in some fairly good winds. My trailer has guides, and I'd like to add a couple more.

i've only seen two other boats with the catch and grab automatic thingys on the front and both required several approaches before they were able to get a lock.
 
harry ames said:
I can highly recommend putting away all pride and asking for help at the ramp. I would never do a single handed launch and retrieve. My wife has the sole responsibility to sit in the truck with her foot on the brake and the E brake on and the truck in park. I do all the rest.

I've used other boaters several times in windy conditions to help and I've frequently been asked by other boaters at the ramp if I'd help and I'm always willing and pleased and think more of them because they recognize that some help is needed to be safe, and more often than not, on a crowded ramp, having an extra hand can get the job done quickly and the whole line up of people waiting will be glad.

I do drive my R21 classic onto the trailer but always end up with a foot or so of cranking to do to snug it up to the stop. The 21 is so responsive to the rudder that I've never had a problem even in some fairly good winds. My trailer has guides, and I'd like to add a couple more.

Harry:

I certainly agree with you on asking for help at the ramp - and getting the boat off the trailer is the easy part. As for reloading, I learned a long time ago that I just ain’t as agile as I used to be. Having to get in and out of the boat, while it’s away from the dock sitting on the trailer, can require some atheletic maneuvers I don’t handle too well.

One thing you said about your wife sitting in the driver’s seat to hold the brake may have suggested a good solution for me - a passenger side brake pedal. That way, launching or retrieval, my wife could stay seated in the passenger seat with her foot on the brake while I exit and re-enter the truck after launching or retrieval (—faster - without having to release the brakes momentarily to switch places.). I’d probably still put my front wheel chocks in place just in case my wife is mad at me! The only thing left at that point is to get someone to hold the bow line while I park or go get the truck. If by ourselves it’s also simple enough to tie off a long enough bow or stern line to the dock that won’t interfere with launching or retrieval. Now to dream up the mechanics of a passenger side brake pedal.
 
A bench seat with the console lifted out of the way? She could sit in the middle with her foot on the brake. The brake pedal is big enough for her foot and your foot while swapping feet on the brake. Maybe?
 
SgtAlf":24zummc8 said:
A bench seat with the console lifted out of the way? She could sit in the middle with her foot on the brake. The brake pedal is big enough for her foot and your foot while swapping feet on the brake. Maybe?

That would work if it didn’t have buckets and a big center console. Oh for the memories of those bench seats!!!
 
You can buy a kit for a passenger side brake pedal. They make them for drivers education cars, mail trucks, etc.

I have installed them before.
 
Romakeme IV":2raa2ofb said:
You can buy a kit for a passenger side brake pedal. They make them for drivers education cars, mail trucks, etc.

I have installed them before.

I just received a response from OS Brake that, yes, their passenger side brake will fit my truck and it is very easy to install. I believe that the cost is right around $399, plus installation - unless I do my own install. This, combined with the hitch extension, the safety handrail to the boat from the truck, and the non-slip shoes, seems to solve most of my concerns. I may even be in the market for an R23 one of these days!!!
 
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