Looking at a tug

[wndwalkr]

The time has come to sell our sailboat and we were planning on stepping up a size or two. After some discussion with the wife we decided to go check out a trawler. Always had sailboats, but what the heck. Just so happens we ended up looking at a 2012 R27. We pretty much decided on our way home that this was gonna be our next boat. There seem to be a few more R25's on the east coast then 27's. My question - is the cabin on the 25 and 27 the same? Is the V berth the same? Is the 2' difference all in the cockpit? 25's seem to be quite a bit cheaper, is something else different? Wondering some pros and cons between the two. The main reason for going with the 25 would be cost and availability. Thanks for any feedback.

 

[baz]

The R-27 vs. R-25 is that the R-27 has

1) a larger more powerful engine
2) about 18" more in cockpit length
3) about 8" more in cabin with most being in the head enclosure
4) a TV in cabin whereas the R-25 does not have one (some R-25SC models have a integrated TV)
4) more teak veneer trim panels
5) nicer fabrics and furnishings
6) maybe a propane stove vs. a Wallas on the R-25.

So yes, most of the extra 2' of the R-27 vs. the R-25 is in cockpit size with a smidgen more space in the head enclosure.

The R-27 started production later than when the R-25 started. Thus there are fewer R-27s vs. R-25s in the field. The new boat cost for the R-27 is around $30K to $50K over the R-25's cost depending on options on each boat.

I sold my 2010 R-25 after 6 yrs for around $98K (no trailer).

 

[wndwalkr]

Great info, just what I was looking for. Thanks.

What about cruising speed and fuel consumption between the two?

 

[baz]

The R-27 can cruise at a higher speed than the R-25 and fuel burn at their cruise speeds should be comparable.

The R-27 is an upgraded R-25 and is more lavishly equipped.

The R-27's engine is more DIY friendly with respect to maintenance as the engine is further aft and more out of the cabin.

 

[Brian B]

The R25 classic and the R25SC are two different boats, don't confuse the two. The SC (sport cockpit) has the same size cockpit as the 27. Depending on the year the SC may not have a TV, I have a 2010 SC and there was not a factory supplied TV. On the classic the forward part of the engine is in the cabin, on the SC the engine is entirely in the cockpit. Owners complain about access to the forward part of the engine on the classic, the SC has its own issues of access which is through the interior step. (see pics in my photo album). I believe the V berth is the same size.

 

[rick&sue]

When we were looking for either a 25 or 27 three years ago, the asking prices for a 27 were $50,000 to $75,000 more for comparably equipped boats. I could not justify the extra money for the slightly bigger head and slightly more storage space as compared to the classic 25. We bought the classic 25 which has a smaller cockpit, but more cabin space than the newer 25. It has worked out great for the two of us. I have modified the interior to provide more room in the v-berth so we can both sleep with our heads at the bow, which provides much easier access in and out of the berth. I reduced the width of the seats at the table to allow more aisle room. It really helps make the boat more roomy and livable for the two of us. The Wallas stove does not have a great reputation, but we like it and use it regularly. It is compact, does not require the generator to run it, does not require shore power, and no propane on board that takes up room. Works great as a heater and does not introduce moisture into the boat like propane does. It is slow to heat up. You have to adjust your cooking habits to accommodate it.
As far as access to the engine (Yanmar 125 HP), the step is removable in our boat so access to the front of the engine is acceptable. I added noise absorption insulation to the engine and generator compartments. The noise level at cruising speeds is about the same as a typical car at highway speeds. We cruise at 7-8 knots; having come from sailing, this speed works great for us. We average slightly under 2 GPH. Fuel cost is incidental to the cost of ownership. We enjoy the trip more so than the actual destination! We looked at moving to a bigger boat a few months ago, reviewed pricing and again could not justify the additional cost to step up to a 27 or Cutwater 28. I continue to modify the boat and trailer to work best for the two of us.
You will have to decide for your intended use if the 2 feet is worth the additional investment.

 

[BradOwens]

If you are not planning on trailering the boat frequently, you may want to look at a Ranger Tug 29 or 31. The 10 ft beam vs 8 ft 6 inches on the 25 and 27 makes a huge difference in interior space. The forward stateroom has a queen size walk-around bed instead of a v-berth, and the head is adjacent to the stateroom rather than in the saloon, giving you a much larger galley. The extra beam also adds stability. You'll pay more for the larger boat, but we find it ideal for extended trips. The older 29s and all 31s have the classic Ranger Tug look and a sliding pilot house door on the starboard side that makes line handling a breeze when docking or going through locks. The newer 29s have a more modern look and lost the pilot house door.

 

[nzfisher]

Do you need the extra space to enjoy cruising? Are you going to trailer the boat? Smaller is easier to trailer.

 

[baz]

...snip...The Wallas stove does not have a great reputation, but we like it and use it regularly. It is compact, does not require the generator to run it, does not require shore power, and no propane on board that takes up room. Works great as a heater and does not introduce moisture into the boat like propane does. It is slow to heat up. You have to adjust your cooking habits to accommodate it.
...snip...

I agree 100% about the Wallas stove/heater. We had one in our R-25 (Classic) and we loved it. We never had any issues with it and cooking on it was never an issue. You just need to be aware that it's hot while cooling down after being used.

I also agree with the price uptick going from R-25 to R-27. I wrestled with this for a long time even with Jeff Messmer coming to my R-25 to help me with a decision. No matter, just could not get onboard with the extra $50K-$70K uptick. We eventually upgraded to the R-21EC after selling the R-25 and being without a boat for almost 2 yrs. Requirements change for all of us, and for us we found after using the R-21EC around a lake we got bored with it and moved it to open water of the Puget Sound and found it would not get us to destinations in a timely manner..... so we thought about the R-23 which in terms of space onboard was similar to our previous R-25 but much faster and easier to maintain.... and then Andrew introduced me to the new 2018 R-27/OB..... and that was that.... we now have the R-27 that we kind of wanted years ago. It has all the things we wanted for cruising the Puget Sound; big enough, fast or slow as required, low/easy maintenance, modern, spacious, V-berth/forward saloon much improved and larger, a forward head, loads and loads of storage space, easy to climb around sides of cabin, easy to get at cabin roof items without falling overboard, big cockpit, no cockpit railings to maintain rust, transom mounted electric grill, ski pole for the kids :lol: , and the list simply goes on and on. The introduction pricing for this new 2018 R-27/OB is very attractive IMO; very good value for the money.

 

[S. Todd]

When we ordered our 2015 25SC the price difference between it and the 27 was $30,000. The boats were equipped the same except the 27 came standard with the TV (which I did not want), holds 10 more gallons of fresh water, and 20 more gallons of fuel, and the Volvo engine was 200 hp instead of 150 hp. The block and displacement of the engines were the same, both D3s. Due to the electronics the 200 hp turned 4000 rpm and the 150 turned 3000 rpm at wide open throttle. Based on my understanding of diesel engine longevity and hp per litre of displacement the D3-150 should outlast the D3-200 (but this is probably an insignificant difference). The 25SC should also be quieter because it is turning less rpm, but I have never compared the two side by side. In most cases the 27 probably has a top end speed of 2 mph faster, but the bottom conditions and loading are significant factors.
The cockpits are identical, the V berths are identical, the helms and dinette seating are identical. Teak trim and fabrics were identical given the same model year boat. The 27 has an additional shelf in the galley and an additional light over the table. The windows at the galley and table of the 25SC they open like double hung windows rather than sliders (like the windows at the helm) which is one of the easiest ways to tell the difference when looking at the two from the outside. The double hung window of the 25SC is more advantageous because you can leave it open in the rain (assuming little wind) and the eyebrow keeps it dry at the top. The galley, head, and mid-cabin entrance are where the extra two feet are placed in the 27.
The 25 just fit in our garage (it and the trailer need 32 feet). Having backed the 25SC up our S curve driveway and into the garage now for three years I am not certain I could have done it with the 27 even if I had made the garage longer. It would likely have taken some modifications to the fence and driveway. (Brad Owens' comment about whether you are planning on trailering is very relevant and he makes a good point about the 10 foot beam.)

 

[scross]

A few more points you may also want to consider in your decision are trailering related.
First there's the cost of the trailer itself if the boat you are looking at doesn't have one. Or if it does have one, is the trailer in good shape? A 10 year old galvanized trailer with heavy salt water use and less than perfect maintenance may not be your best bet.
If you go larger than the 27, as has been mentioned, trailering it is a bit more complicated. Several folks trailer a 29 with wide load permits and are comfortable with it. But it does take more planning to trailer a 29 with it's wider beam. Trailering a 29 is a heavy load and you need the right truck for it - think One Ton!
With the 27 or the 25 you will probably want a 3/4 or one ton truck. One with adequate margins over the weights you will be towing.
If you do not intend to trailer you will need a slip and/or dry storage which is another cost to consider. Contrast that to the cost of buying and/or maintaining a trailer. Also, boats left in the salt water full year tend to need a bit more maintenance than boats that are only in the water seasonally - think zinks!

 

[Red Raven]

For us the propane range and the added storage in the cave was the tie breaker over the R25SC. We use the oven all the time and prefer to cook with propane. The R27 cave can hold two folding bikes, all our hanging items, plus life jackets, laundry bags etc.

Curt

 

[wndwalkr]

Lots of great info. Thanks all.

We plan to keep the boat in a slip on the Chesapeake most of the time. Would like to do one trailer trip a year. And we also want to be able to pull the boat and store it under cover at home over winter. So the trailerabilitu of the 25/27 is a must.

We plan to look at a 25sc and compare. Looks like about a 15-20k difference in price for similar year boats.