Low Oil Pressure fault code 415, 143, 141

[Zundels]

We are about ready to put our 2009 R-25 back in the water for the summer (late spring here in Kodiak, AK). We have the Cummins Mercury QSD 150 engine. It is and has been a great fuel efficient reliable engine.

Last fall changed the oil and filter. Just checked the oil dip stick and shows a little over full, so thought it would be OK once started and refilling the filter.

Started up the engine for the first time since last October and it started after a few cranks, was very happy. About 15 seconds later the SmartCraft alarm sounded and showed the codes 415 and 143 for low oil pressure. Checked the dip stick again and it is still showing a little over full.

Was thinking that after engine sat for months, maybe the alarm sounded as the oil had sat so long. We would start it again and after about 10 seconds the alarm went off again. Just to be sure, did start the engine a while later, a third time and same result, low oil pressure alarm. The dip still shows more than full after the three attempts.

Will the alarm sound if the oil level is bit to full? If this is an issue I can pull some out. What other options?

Also, I see that the impeller replacement is not pulling any water, so need to pull the impeller again, that would not cause any issue with the oil pressure would it?

Also read where sometimes a sensor connection could be disconnect or a faulty connection, is this wire on the back of the SmartCraft board or on the engine?

Need to resolve these topics so we can get it off the trailer and back into the water, soon.

Thanks for any of your experiences or insights. Don

 

[abcandjrc]

I'm going to guess that you did run the engine after changing the oil last fall. Is that correct? No alarms then?

I'm also going to guess that you are looking at the engine as these alarms occur. Are you? Do you see oil squirting or leaking anyplace. I'm guessing not since you say the oil level hasn't changed.

Do you know the definitions associated with all those codes, or can you find them?

Generally, a slight overfill will harm nothing and I can't conceive that an alarm would be triggered. Having a great deal of extra oil will generally not affect oil pressure but can affect oil flow to some degree since the crankshaft will create an oil/air froth. That shouldn't be your case. By a great deal I mean a quart or more of excess, which you can probably estimate if you compare the low/full marks to the amount the oil shows above the full mark.

The reason for the first question is to preclude that the new oil filter is defective. Otherwise I am going to guess electronics, also. Particularly on the sending units on the engine it is easy to have knocked off a wire while servicing the engine or for corrosion to occur, increasing the resistance the units depend on for calibration. I'd look for the terminals for the sending units and remove and replace each wire to make sure the connection is clean and solid.

As for the water pump impeller, I am going to make another assumption that the belt (if belt driven on your engine) is properly tensioned. Do you know for sure that you installed the impeller with the vanes in the proper direction? Most will correct on their own, but it can damage the impeller. You should at least inspect it. If the direction of rotation is not clearly marked on the cover plate, it would be a good idea to determine the proper rotation by watching with the cover off for a second or two and mark it on the cover. (Our Yanmar engine was kindly marked by the factory with arrows in both directions. I suppose one is supposed to scratch one of them off. :? )

What source of water are you using for the intake? Be sure not to pressurize the lines directly with a hose, but if the source can be raised a bit it will aid in priming the pump. The pump has to move a bit of air around to clear and that is not easily done at low throttle. If you are using a bucket, just hold it above the engine for a few seconds and see if the water starts to flow. We always prime ours at the oil change when the engine is warm and we can make sure the water is flowing before storing for winter (1 day here last year).

However, you should finish diagnosis of the oil problem first, since running for more than a few seconds with no oil pressure can cause excessive wear and even failures.

Whatever the results, be sure to post them to let us all know.

 

[knotflying]

Additional questions: Does the alarm stop if you raise the RPM? Do you hear the tappets making noise when you get the low oil pressure alarm? I had a similar issue on my Yanmar. You should first check the oil sensor and see that it is sending out the proper ohms at various RPM's. If that is okay, attaching a mechanical guage will confirm that oil pressure is really okay. If that checks out then it is most likely a bad connection somewhere and you need to start checking from the sensor back. Mine turned out to be a bad connection at the computer harness.

 

[Zundels]

Great ideas and suggestions, thank you.

When the engine is running, every system seemed fine. No leaks and no sound of the tappet. Just the sound of the alarm going off so this sounds more like a sensor issue. Will then need to trace from the sensor back.

Have not tried the different engine RPMs yet.

Do have the SmartCraft code explanations. We received two or three different codes about the oil pressure:
Oil pressure Sensor Voltage Out of Range. The engine oil pressure sensor output voltage is above the upper limit or below the lower limit.
Oil Pressure Critical Low Warning. Engine oil pressure signal indicates engine oil pressure is well below engine protection limit.

 

[Bruce Moore]

We had similar error messages on our former R-25, relating to the oil pressure sensor. It turned out the problem was the sensor, triggering false-positive errors. We could cancel it out and cruise and all other indicators were normal. It would come back intermittently. Quite annoying.

Cummins was aware that a number of these sensors were failing. We were out of warranty and bought a replacement and had it installed by our tech. It was actually a newly specified part. The replacement itself was quite easy, but accessing the sensor location was a challenge. It took the tech over 2 hours - 5 minutes of which was swapping sensors.

Cheers,

Bruce

 

[Just Dreamin']

Included are the fault codes with description and effect. If I could figure out how to add an attachment to a posting I would post the complete Smartcraft fault code listing with description and effect for Cummins QSD.

141 Sensor Oil Pressure High
Oil Pressure Sensor Voltage Out Of Range.
The engine oil pressure sensor output voltage is above the upper limit or below the lower limit.
Effect: None - No engine protection for circuit or sensor failurer.
143 Oil Pressure Low
Oil Pressure Low Warning.
Engine oil pressure signal indicates engine oil pressure is below engine protection limit.
Effect: Engine speed derate.
415 Oil Pressure Low
Oil Pressure Critical Low Warning.
Engine oil pressure signal indicates engine oil pressure is well below engine protection limit.
Effect: Engine speed derate.

 

[Levitation]

A man with two watches is never sure of the time...
An engine with two oil pressure sensors is never sure of the pressure... I have a 35 year old diesel tractor on the farm that has a mechanical oil pressure gauge and a 'low oil pressure' warning light (and buzzer)... We were forced to disconnect the buzzer because it always goes off when the engine idles (we ignore the red light) yet the mechanical gauge shows 15 pounds at idle (which is normal)... The electric oil pressure sending unit is about 60 bucks (when you can find one) and I will get a round to it one of these days...

 

[abcandjrc]

The real problem here is the "Boy Crying Wolf" problem. If you keep ignoring it, one day it will be right and cost $15,000. I'm an engineer and a computer-weenie, but a Luddite Sympathizer when it comes to instrumentation on really expensive revolving stuff (and on "High-Speed Diesels" in general, for that matter) .

One reason I did not suggest reving the engine to see if the alarm goes off is that if it is correct, you will wind up causing excessive wear to, at least, the bottom-end. The bottom-end depends not only on the presence of oil, but the correct pressure, to prevent the parts from touching each other.

I suppose everyone with electronics should go out and get a mechanical gauge, like Levitation has on his tractor, screwed directly into the block someplace where it is easily seen.

Oops, in most of the installations other than the R21, is sounds like one is lucky to even be able to see the block. I still remember getting really oily socks when the tubing to the mechanical gauge in my jeep failed. What's a fella to do?

(edited: I just read the bulletin Andrew posted. I could feel my oil soaked socks again. Fail-safe would have mounted the sender in the block where the "pipe" leaves. No room? No access? Hose cheaper than wire?)

 

[knotflying]

The problem I had on my Yanmar was that because of a bad connection the pressure was reading 10 lbs lower than reality and that is why at idle I was getting a low oil pressure alarm. This is why a check of the sensor with an ohm meter will identiy if the sensor is working properly if it is and then attaching a mechanical guage temporarily will determine/confirm that the oil pressure is actually okay. if both check out okay (in my case) it was the bad connection.

 

[Zundels]

OK, need your assistance, as a novice with this engine. (2008/2009 Cummins 150)

In November we pulled the R-25 out of the water onto the trailer. Installed a new oil filter, added oil and let it sit for six months. The past week, did all other spring engine maintenance and after starting the engine, in ten seconds, the low oil pressure alarm went off. Tried twice more and with low pressure alarms each time, so shut off engine immediately.

Now, I start debugging with the obvious - drain the oil, then just pulled the oil filter and it came out of the canister new with not a drop of oil on it-the oil filter canister is empty. If the engine was started three times and run for about 5 seconds each time, shouldn't there be oil in the filter?

What is causing the oil filter container to be dry (and cause the alarm?)? Any one else have similar experiences?

Thanks, Don

 

[abcandjrc]

OK, need your assistance, as a novice with this engine. (2008/2009 Cummins 150)

In November we pulled the R-25 out of the water onto the trailer. Installed a new oil filter, added oil and let it sit for six months. The past week, did all other spring engine maintenance and after starting the engine, in ten seconds, the low oil pressure alarm went off. Tried twice more and with low pressure alarms each time, so shut off engine immediately.

Now, I start debugging with the obvious - drain the oil, then just pulled the oil filter and it came out of the canister new with not a drop of oil on it-the oil filter canister is empty. If the engine was started three times and run for about 5 seconds each time, shouldn't there be oil in the filter?

What is causing the oil filter container to be dry (and cause the alarm?)? Any one else have similar experiences?

Thanks, Don

Let me ask again, but I think you may have indicated, did you run the engine after changing the oil? You should always do that!

Any yes, there should be oil in the filter, but not necessarily in 5 seconds. Another reason for running immediately after a change is that the engine will already be warm and the oil will flow into the sytems more quickly. You will "prime" everything much more quickly. And, when you restart in the spring, there will be less wear induced. Residual oil from the last run does drain off during the winter layup, but the system will be partially filled, especially the filter, so pressures will come up more quickly.

I suspect that you have minimal experince with engines in general (draining the oil when the dipstick told you there was plenty gives me a hint) and perhaps should have someone give you a hand here. But if you literally mean 5 seconds, and the engine was not run immediately after the change, you probably need to go a bit longer before shutting down. But that is the tricky part..... "How much longer?". The parts will definitely be "dry" for a longer time than if you had run it back in the fall.

 

[Zundels]

Thank you for all the feedback and suggestions. Topic solved.

Mechanic decided it was an airlock keeping the oil filter canister dry. We added oil to the canister and had pressure immediately. The pressure reading was high and with the 15/40 oil viscosity engine needed to be run to heat the oil and it came right down to normal pressure.

We are back out on the water and enjoying every minute.

Don

 

[abcandjrc]

Whatever works is a good thing, but I doubt that "air lock" was the problem. I suspect that filling the oil filter canister allowed oil pressure to build more quickly and reach the pressure the sending unit required to "make". The oil pump would easily be able to overcome any air in the upper part of the oil chambers, including an oil filter canister.

I do regret, and apologize for, not having looked at the parts explosion for your engine until just now. I had assumed a typical filter cartridge, not an element in a canister, or I would have suggested just what you finally did. It shouldn't be necessary, but sure can't hurt. It is impractical on most engines with cartridges due to the perversity of engine designers who insist on mounting those horizontally. On our Ford/Lehmans I always filled the canisters before closing them up.

I suspect that if you change your own oil next year, and you drain it while the engine is hot, refill, replace the filter (and maybe even fill the canister 😳 ) and immediately restart the engine you will not have the problem again.

I am glad you got it going. Having alarms go off is not good for the nerves even if it doesn't reach the big nerve that reaches inside the left rear pants pocket.

About the raw water impeller? Did that prime OK for you once you had good engine RPMs?

 

[Zundels]

Removed the impeller cover installed by the mechanic and reinstalled with the O ring and it is tight with no leaks. It primed immediately and we have plenty of water flow. Also tightened the pipe clamps in the area and all is dry, a good thing.

Thanks for your assistance, Don