BB marine":1ssrj436 said:
PlanetoSea":1ssrj436 said:
S. Todd, I tend to agree. The big question for me is if anyone knows if there is a common electrical wire or component where both pumps come together for the automatic pump feature and the manual switches? I know each pump is wired independently, but they both go to the house batteries on separate switches for manual operation, and each has a separate fuse for automatic operation. Does all of this meet somewhere obvious that I can check connections or voltage to see if there is a common component/connection failure? Thanks.
The common electrical connection is at the pump. The pump motor has a common ground for both pumps. If the pump is fully automatic pump that cycles every 2.5 minutes it will have 3 leads coming out of it.
BLACK WIRE ground wired to a yellow ground wire attached to the terminal strip in the quarter berth.
BROWN WIRE at pump is the automatic pump lead and is wired to the thruster battery fuse block in the quarter berth (Cave) using a BROWN wire with a RED stripe or BROWN wire with BLUE stripe (depending on if it is the high water pump or main bilge pump) If the thruster battery is charged and the auto bilge pump fuses are good there should be 12V at the pumps for the electronic/auto pump function to work.
BROWN/WHITE WIRE at pump. This is the wire that powers the manual pump function. It is wired to either a RED wire with a BROWN stripe or a PURPLE wire with a BROWN stripe. These wires are coming off of the stitch and going to a breaker located at the helm. The 12V source is the house battery bank. If the house battery switch is on and the breakers are set there should be power going to the pumps when the switches are in the on position.
It is coincidental that a fuse blew on one pump auto side. You replaced it both pumps worked, auto/cycled and manually operated and a couple days later both pumps failed to operate in either manual or auto. My first thought is the common ground connection is loose or corroded. A loose or corroded connection increases resistance requiring more amperage. Many times a loose connection can cause a fuse to blow. A loose connection can eventually become an open connection causing the circuit to completely fail.
The common link to the two auto circuits and the manual circuits is the ground. The next common components are the pumps. A12V test light will tell the story in 5 minutes. If there is 12V + at the pumps (connecting the test light to a good ground and making contact with the BROWN and BROWN/WHITE wires at each pump) Light on ? Next( connect the test light to the BROWN wire RED stripe make contact with the Black wire at the pump) Light on?? If you answered yes to both replace the pumps. Yes to the first test and no to the second . Finding the loose yellow ground leads may take a few more minutes if that is the issue.
Good luck with your troubleshooting.
Thanks! This was a very helpful post. The detail helped greatly. I also was able to talk to one of the customer service reps from Ranger Tugs and he was also incredibly helpful. I tested power and the wires were hit when switched on, so I replaced the aft bilge pump. I connected the wires to the new pump first just to make sure and both manual and auto functions worked 100%. So then the body origami began with me folding myself into the engine bay and laying in the engine for way too long getting everything swapped. Now aft bilge is up and running 100%. I’ll take a swing at the forward bilge shortly (after I see a chiropractor to straighten my body back out...). For anyone else who has to swap out a bilge pump, here are a few lessons learned:
* If you have Rule pumps, and your fuse blows occasionally on the automatic protection, check your fuse rating. In the Owner’s Manual, it calls for a 5 amp fuse, but that was for the prior generation of pumps. The Rule pumps need a 7.5 amp fuse—that should help stop blown fuses...
* My aft pump has a 90 degree elbow on it that connects to the hose that leads to the discharge port. The hose was heat shrunk to the elbow, and double clamped. I couldn’t get the hose off without cutting it, and didn’t have the time, tools or patience to cut it and replace the hose with a larger diameter one to fit the Rule outflow port. So, I unscrewed the pump from the elbow by spinning the pump while the hose was still attached to the elbow. I held the elbow steady and spun the pump. Since I had already cut the wires, it was no big deal...HOWEVER...when you are getting ready to “spin” the new pump to thread it back in to the elbow, I would recommend doing that before you crimp butt connectors with wires connected, since the spinning of the pump with the wires unable to spin leads to them twisting. For my install, I had already connected the wires and had enough slack to go ahead and spin the pump and have the wires do a little twist-braiding. If you are short on slack in the wires, this could be a problem. So, might want tot eat using wire nuts so you can easily disconnect wires for any install gymnastics, and leave crimping and sealing for the last steps.
* A great tip from the RT customer service rep was to use the factory-supplied throw flotation pad as a chest pad and put it on top of the engine before laying down. Since you winds up pretty far heads down towards the bilge, the pad was a godsend of a little more comfort.
* For me, I’m not a small guy (6’2” and about 230lbs), so figuring out how to get in/out of the space was critical. To get to the pump and press the tabs on each side to release the pump from its base, I laid down on the right side of the engine hatch (facing aft), then went head first into the space between the engine and generator. I braced myself on the pad on top of the engine and then with a hand down on the bay on the far side, which allowed me to use my right arm to reach down under the drive shaft and squeeze the tabs to get the pump released, and to use my hand to feel for any debris or gunk down there to get it out. Pro tip...put a small cup or bowl down in the engine Bay Area so you have a place to put any debris or gunk because it’s really hard to reach back up to the cockpit deck once you are in there. Did the same thing to do final install of pump back into the base. Use the same pump, and you can reuse the base...just swipe inside with your hand first to clear any stuff that shouldn’t be there.
* For pretty much all other work, I had pulled the pump up above the drive shaft so I could reach everything while laying on top of the engine. Another pro tip...for me, getting onto the engine took a little practice because kneeling on it and then sticking my legs out had my feet on the inside of the door, and as I laid down, the bottom of the door was digging in to my shins. I figured out if I kneeled first, then laid down on my left hip with my legs bent, I could then shift into my stomach with no issues.
* If you have some, knee pads would go a long way to making the whole adventure less irritating and more comfortable since you spend a lot of time transitioning on/off the engine using your knees (at least I did).
I hope that helps anyone else who finds themselves in this situation! Once I figure out how to do the same with the forward pump, I’ll post results here as well.
