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Stella Maris

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
1,500
Fluid Motion Model
C-24 C
Non-Fluid Motion Model
Helmsman PH38, 11' Boston Whaler, 9' Boston Whaler
Vessel Name
Destiny
If you could change ONE thing on your boat (different from way the factory builds it), what would it be?

For us, we would love to have a sofa. Eliminate the dinette and midship stateroom and you could make it happen.

Others?
 
In a way, that's part of the point of the Cutwaters. You get a sofa-like environment with the table in the forepeak which is pretty cool.

Having had truck slide-in campers, this was always a tradeoff. The standard dinette with a table that lowers and then you put the seat back cushions on the table has always be the typical setup. But, about 10 years ago, the "jack knife sofa" came into fad. They run around $500 and are available in 60, 62, 64, 68, 72, and 76" lengths, Flexsteel is probably the best known manufacturer: http://www.glastop.com/rv-furniture-products.asp?id=62. Like a modern recliner, when you pull out the seat to form a bed, the back drops down and moves forward (jack knifes) in it's own space. No cushions to move or arrange. Huge storage under the couch, usually. You lose the seating of a U-shaped dinette, and instead of a squarish table, you use a long narrow table that mounts on two removable cylinders. Hiding the table when using the couch in sofa or bed mode is always a problem; I've hinged the table to fold to make it easier to stow. Roof top storage in a pod on our sport rack might work.

Of course, the fiberglass forms under the seats probably precludes retrofitting such a couch. But some of them come without the storage unit/box underneath and are quite thin in the seat which might allow mounting on top of the fiberglass supports for the present seats. However, they you have all that fiberglass still sticking out in front of you. If you could remove the fiberglass that currently holds up the seats and forms the top of the mid-cabin enclosure you could install something like this:

Couch.jpg


I think, the easiest answer might be to change over to a Cutwater as I don't see the factory losing the dinette/midcabin design soon.
 
I got caught up in Karma's sofa thing, I forgot to mention what I'd like to see for changes. Sorry I have three, not one comment:

1. Softer cushions in the V-berth. I don't buy the factory's explanations that there wouldn't be enough head room if they added some soft foam to the existing cushions. They could just replace the top 2 inches with a softer foam glued to the hard-as-a-rock stuff that's standard. We had 2.5 inch think cushions made to sit on top of the existing V-berth cushions, and there is still enough headroom not to hit your noggin while sleeping or arising.

2. A vent under the table to allow some air movement in the midship berth, in the event someone dares use it. A long rectangular hinged wooden vent could also allow easy access for storage in the cave for those not planning to sleep there. It gets hot in there, even with the AC going. Got to be a mold/mildew magnet, too. Check out Sidetrack's addition. Perfect!:


3. Some kind of shelving in the V-berth given all that wasted space above your feet. Bay Ranger has the right idea, see their great modification:


Pretty small potatoes. These are more like options. The boat is pretty perfect the way it is. I'd only suggest that in the R25sc, that Ranger might shorten the overly long starboard side of the V-berth (most couple have one big and one little person-rarely two six footers), thus allowing much more counter space in the galley. They should increase the size of the cabin about 18" allowing way easier access to the cave, more storage in there, and more room to move about the cabin, even if it is at the expense of some room on deck... Oh, I guess I'm suggesting they discontinue the R15sc and go back to the perfect R25. Whoops!
 
In the R21-EC I would like to see:

-- Slight increase in hull speed and engine HP that would result in a cruising speed of 12 - 14 kts. & top speed of 15 -16 kts.

-- Improved fuel tank design that would eliminate the problem of fuel sloshing out of the vents from normal boating & trailering motion.

-- Relocate the Yanmar instrument panel to the forward helm area with the addition of gauges for water temp & oil pres.

But the bottom line is we love this boat.
 
Kamalani, may I add a couple of items for the R21EC? I agree with your items. 😀

1. Opening center windshield.

2. Overhead hatchs/ports positioned so that they open to the front. Fresh air is important in the South. 😱

3. Better sound deadening in the engine box, including the bottom of the engine compartment; sound resonates through to the cabin. I prefer engine boxes, makes it easier to get to things. Besides at 73, it's hard for me to stand on my head. 😉

4. Locate the head to aft end of cockpit, have drop down canvas enclosure for it alone for those folks who don't want a full cockpit enclosure.

gene
 
I too LOVE my new 21EC. Kalamani makes good points and seems very connected to her boat! I find I really enjoy your perspectives 🙂 I try to deny it, but given the rpm / speed issues mentioned of late, can't figure why a couple of more kts couldn't be had. I have questioned weather the new swim platform might be a speed restriction there, but now am not convinced. (water does pool over the platform as I increase speed and the bow raises) I wonder if the design center of gravity has changed as I look to increase some balast fwd. Even my thruster sucks air when I have a guest or two cruising with me. I would like to see a pole mounted swing arm table with position for passenger to use as writing table or swing out and be sandwich perch / drink holder for two. This should stow up and away on the bar! Still can't figure quite how, but would like to see a pilot seat that has a leaning post... perhaps if you move the instruments panel up fwd like Kalamani mentioned (I am forever trying to read switch names and its a bother) then you could swing or stow seat / leaning post combination in remaining space...? My two cents, what do you think?
 
I think it's time to re-introduce the R-21 Classic (with the newer EC undersides) and replace the EC model with a new R-22 widebeam.

 
SlackwaterJack, you can't do that! 😱 I can't buy a new boat just now. I haven't had my CS30 and Rosborough RF-246 long enough to justify another new boat to my wife. 😉 If you do convince Ranger to build a R22, please have the fore mentioned modifications made. 😉

Bluedragonfly, there's one R21EC out there with a 40 hp engine. I'm not sure it gets enough additional performance to warrant the cost and fuel consumption. Let's hear from the owner on that.

gene
 
I like the features & relative easy on-road transportation of my R25 but have always been displeased with the diffult access to work on things and the fact that you have to close cabin door to open engine cover. I was not interested in moving up to a R29 as I think it is beyond what I want to transport long distances on highway. From what I can see the newer designed R27 has solved my primary complaints of the earlier R25 models like mine.
 
Slackwater Jack is on to something! I remember, (But can't seem to find), a thread which morphed into a similar discussion. I dreamed up the R-23EC which was similar in look to the 21, but allowed for a faster hull speed, larger engine and a bit more room to lay out the wheelhouse. Apparently, Ranger didn't take me too seriously. 😉
 
Maybe they could cut 3-4 ft from the mid section of the retired molds for R-25 classic? (if they're still lying around)
Ranger would also need to avoid the urge to load it up with too many complex and expensive bells and whistles, plus keep the engine simple (Yanmar 60-80 hp non-turbo) to keep the cost within reason 😉 ...it's fun to think about.
 
I agree with Kamalani about the Yanmar control panel and the gauges.

As a minimum, the DC Distribution Panel and the Yanmar Control Panel should be swapped. It is hard to adjust the throttle and have to turn around and view the RPM at the same time.

When I ordered my boat, I inquired about having oil, water and battery gauges installed. My dealer said the factory does that and would give me a quote. I was then told it was too hard for the factory, and the dealer could do it for $1500 for a Yanmar solution, or half that for a Stewart-Warner solution. I feel the gauges are critical for the boats operation. If you have to wait for the idiot lights to warn you, you are too late.

The one other thing I think the factory should have addressed is a cup holder for the helm. The mate and the cockpit all have cup holders, and none for the helm.
 
I am new here and have not bought a boat yet. I am leaning toward the R-21EC. Is the fact that the head is below the bed a problem for any of you? I was surprised to see that nobody suggested that as a potential change. I would think that there might be an odor issue.
 
I have not had a problem with odor with the head on my boat. 🙂 The only issue we have is if I need to use the head in the middle of the night when the mate is sleeping. :cry:
 
SlackwaterJack, what you're proposing, re. cutting a section from the R25 mold, might yield something like the R25SC with a smaller engine????? 😉 I really like the R25SC better than the R25. A problem I find with newer Rangers is local support. Yanmar support for my Ranger R21EC engine was pathetic. :shock: I knew more than they did. After reading the responses of owners of common rail engines when they've tried to get service, I've gotten leery.

I had hoped for better support for the engines on my Rosborough (Yamaha). But, so far, after waiting a week, they haven't even looked at it. :x M/B I should buy another R21EC?

I experienced the same issues concerning the DC control panel and the engine control panel. I kept having various lights come on, unexpectedly, until I realized I needed to sit centered in the helm seat. 😱 😉 I researched the Yanmar site looking for gages, found they didn't offer that option for the R21EC engine. I bought gages from Fishermans (???), never got around to installing them.

gene
 
I've suggested changing the head location three or four times. Never had an odor problem, never used the head. I, too, saw a major issue with using the head at night. As a result I never used the boat as I intended and it was a major factor in deciding to sell it.

gene
 
rt11002003":2cvr9nf1 said:
Kamalani, may I add a couple of items for the R21EC? I agree with your items. 😀

2. Overhead hatchs/ports positioned so that they open to the front. Fresh air is important in the South. 😱

gene

Gene, is the hatch square as it is on the 27? If so, the factory turned it 90 degrees by simply removing it and remounting it on TRAVELER (a good friend's 27).

Charlie
 
I believe that the 2 hatches overhead on the R-21EC are square and are positioned to each open to the seaward side. I don't remember if the foredeck hatch over the V-berth is square or slightly rectangular. Hey! while I'm there... does anyone know the secret to the latch mechanism on the forward hatch. It is different from the smaller ones with operating handles both inside and outside. Is there a locking feature? Or is there a huge opening for uninvited access to the interior?

Gauges - I am oh so close to having my gauge installation ,(oil pres & coolant temp), complete, but I ran a'foul of Yanmar's choice of threads at the required locations. ( for example, to replace the yanmar sensor for oil pres with a single sensor for the existing panel alarm plus sender for the gauge, I require an adaptor to go from a metric 10mm x 1.0 thread to a NPT 1/4 - 18 thread. still looking.) These are VDO marine gauges to be mounted in a simple 2-gauge bracket, (Jegs), directly below the helm.

Isn't this really why we love boating anyway?

Alex, "Kamalani"
 
Sorry. The overhead hatches on the 21EC are rectangular. The emergency hatch over the birth is square.
 
OOPS! I must have been looking at them upside down! 😳
 
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