Next Ranger to get Outboards?

[baz]

Chimo:

I typically will cruise my R-27/OB at anywhere between 28 and 38 mph. At around the 32 mph & 4500 RPM mark I observe 2.0 MPG (and maybe 15 GPH) on the Yamaha and Garmin displays.

The R-27/OB will fall off plane at around 15-18 mph.

You can use the numbers below for the R-27/OB to evaluate what it is you want.

For our previous R-25 (Classic) which was fully loaded with a heavy Portland Pudgy dinghy on the stern platform, two adults and a fairly full tank of 60 to 70 gallons in same water/sea conditions as for the R-27/OB I would try to cruise anywhere from 10 to 12 mph with RPM in the range of 3200. For a slow cruise I would fall back to around 8 mph. I found it was very hard to get the R-25 anywhere close to 14 mph at WOT of around 3800 RPM, presumable because the boat was fully loaded. When running the R-25 at 12 to 14 mph the it would wander a bit, was skittish when steering manually, but not an issue when on auto pilot as that mechanism handled any skittishness. The fuel burn at my normal cruise speed of 10-12 mph was from what I recall around 5 GPH at 3000 RPM and around 2.5 MPG.

I can cruise my R-27/OB at close to 3x the speed of my R-25 (Classic) using roughly the same MPG of fuel.

I did assembly some performance numbers for you for the R-23, R-27/OB and the R-25SC.

R-27/OB
MPH RPM GPH MPG
5.2 1000 1.2 4.33
6.8 1500 1.9 3.58
8.6 2000 3.1 2.77
10 2500 5 2
11.3 3000 6.6 1.71
14.5 3500 8.2 1.77
18.5 4000 11.8 1.57
30.7 4500 15.3 2.01
35.3 5000 18.7 1.89
39.3 5500 23.6 1.67
42.3 5900 26.5 1.6

R-25SC
MPH RPM GPH MPG
5.8 1000 0.45 12
6.75 1200 0.75 8.7
7.3 1400 1.25 6
8.1 1600 1.8 4.5
9 2000 3.1 3
10 2200 3.8 2.5
11.5 2400 4.6 2.3
12.9 2600 5.6 2.3
16.1 2800 6.4 2.2
18.5 3000 7.4 2.2

R-23
MPH RPM GPH MPG
4.2 1000 0.7 6
6 1500 1.3 4.62
7.4 2000 2.1 3.52
8.4 2500 3.2 2.63
9.5 3000 4.8 1.98
10.4 3500 6.6 1.58
12.7 4000 8.8 1.44
22 4500 10 2.2
30.4 5000 11.8 2.58
34.4 5500 15.8 2.18
38.7 6050 20.4 1.9

I hope the above answers you enquiry. 🙂

 

[ixlr8]

Chimo- I can't help with the rest of your questions, but here are the performance numbers for the R27 OB from test done by Yamaha.

https://yamahaoutboards.com/en-us/h...300-(4-2l)/pb_rgt_r-27_f300uca_2017-06-28_owa

 

[Craig]

Just saw the review on the new 42 whaler with quad outboards and pretty impressive. There is definitely a wave of support for the low maintenance and available speed of outboards. Outboard technology is amazing for both slow speed maneuvering and speed


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[johnniethek]

I think we'll see outboards on the 21-footer before we see them on anything bigger than the 27...

 

[NorthernFocus]

I think we'll see outboards on the 21-footer before we see them on anything bigger than the 27...

Having already bailed on the 25, if ranger quits making the 21 then will have truly abandoned their roots.

 

[scross]

Since the R21 isn’t showing up as one of “Our Models” on the RT website, it’s my guess that they are either waiting to announce a new outboard R21 or have decided the R21 inboard Diesel production is on indefinite or permanent hold...

 

[JamesTXSD]

I think we'll see outboards on the 21-footer before we see them on anything bigger than the 27...

Having already bailed on the 25, if ranger quits making the 21 then will have truly abandoned their roots.

Isn't that a bit like saying Ford abandoned their roots because they no longer make the Model A? Of course, Model T owners probably thought the same thing when Ford started making the Model A. 😉

Progress happens.

 

[baz]

Yep.... companies have to move forward with the times otherwise they die and fall by the wayside. It's happened to many and we should be thankful that RT/CW are likely to stay in business and be around to service and help all of us with the inboard and outboard engine RT/CW models.

 

[NorthernFocus]

Isn't that a bit like saying Ford abandoned their roots because they no longer make the Model A? Of course, Model T owners probably thought the same thing when Ford started making the Model A. 😉

Progress happens.

Ah yes, but boats ain't cars. The chronicles of the boating industry are filled with the names of boat manufacturers that built bigger and bigger and faster and faster boats. Until one day....

Then again a few have been around for decades. Time will tell which RT will be. In the mean time, my R25 likely got a boost in resale value so it's all good 😀

 

[timdelta]

Dear Ranger Tugs, when I sell the spare house, it is a R31CB with diesel, not outboard. Just saying--

 

[captstu]

There is a major consideration in the outboard/gasoline vs inboard/Diesel debate.

Both the engine and generator in my Ranger R-25 have been orphaned by their manufacturers. Yanmar has said that major subsystem parts for the Yanmar 4BY series of engines are no longer being manufactured and when stock is exhausted, we are out of luck.

My Mace generator engine failed with damaged bearings, scuffed cylinders, and damaged pistons - and Mase has told me parts are no longer being imported due to EPA restrictions. They are trying to "find" me a short block for the $1600 repair.

Over the past year or so I've been trying to trade my R-25 for a Cutwater because we have an easier time getting in and out of the Cutwater bunk as we age. The local dealer has told me my Ranger has no value as a trade, I presume because neither the engine nor the generator can be repaired if they suffer a major malfunction.

My previous boat, a Gemini, was coming up on 30 years old when I sold her - parts were readily available since basic outboard components haven't changed since their invention.

Plus, gasoline engines for all the safety debates, are MUCH quieter than all but the most expensive Diesels.

So, economically, I'll replace the generator and run my Ranger for many more years before "full disclosure" selling her at a severely discounted price to someone who doesn't mind replacing rather than repairing the Diesel engine or generator when they fail.

In the meantime, I'm fitting a NextGen into the space liberated by the Mace.

 

[baz]

Stuart: Thanks.... You do bring up some informative information for us to consider.

My speculation is that RT is much closer to the future aspects/strategy for using the small Yanmar (in the past now) and the Volvo diesel engines in their boats, especially the smaller boats which traditionally they've sold far more of than the larger ones (R29 on up). The spare parts for the diesel engines as time moves forward is becoming precarious IMO as you've mentioned. Volvo is a large company and suspect their focus is really on the very large diesel engines used in the big and expensive boats.

I don't see RT moving away from diesel engines for their large boats and it will be of interest to see what they install in the rumored Ranger R-38 (maybe we see/hear something at the Seattle Boat show in Jan 2018). This places the entry price for these large RT models out of reach for many sub 60 yr-old first time buyers... the current R-29S starts at $260K for the least expensive model. The R-23 is at $110K and the current R-27/OB is being offered at discount right now for $185K. Thus there's almost $150K to step up from R-23 to R-29S and some $80K to step up from the R-27/OB to the R-29S. The only way to get the larger diesel powered RT at a better price point is to look for a decent used one.

I have to think RT makes most of its revenue from the smaller boats (R-23 and R-27/OB) so I really don't see RT returning to producing the diesel inboard powered small models again.

This whole affair driven by practical considerations of what to expect from the long term small diesel engine maintenance and spare parts has to be playing a role in forcing RT to make some hard business decisions.

 

[Brian B]

There is a major consideration in the outboard/gasoline vs inboard/Diesel debate.

Both the engine and generator in my Ranger R-25 have been orphaned by their manufacturers. Yanmar has said that major subsystem parts for the Yanmar 4BY series of engines are no longer being manufactured and when stock is exhausted, we are out of luck.

My Mace generator engine failed with damaged bearings, scuffed cylinders, and damaged pistons - and Mase has told me parts are no longer being imported due to EPA restrictions. They are trying to "find" me a short block for the $1600 repair.

Over the past year or so I've been trying to trade my R-25 for a Cutwater because we have an easier time getting in and out of the Cutwater bunk as we age. The local dealer has told me my Ranger has no value as a trade, I presume because neither the engine nor the generator can be repaired if they suffer a major malfunction.

My previous boat, a Gemini, was coming up on 30 years old when I sold her - parts were readily available since basic outboard components haven't changed since their invention.

Plus, gasoline engines for all the safety debates, are MUCH quieter than all but the most expensive Diesels.

So, economically, I'll replace the generator and run my Ranger for many more years before "full disclosure" selling her at a severely discounted price to someone who doesn't mind replacing rather than repairing the Diesel engine or generator when they fail.

In the meantime, I'm fitting a NextGen into the space liberated by the Mace.

This is contrary to what I've been told. A Mack Boring Yanmar rep at the Newport boat show related that they expect Yanmar to supply parts for the next 20 years. The BY series will be replaced with a Toyota diesel. I was speaking to my local parts supplier and he said from his experience Yanmar will supply parts for many years to come. He mentioned a Yanmar model that was discontinued back in the 80's and they still supply parts for it. He also said that the BY series made by BMW are bullet proof, just give them clean fuel, oil and air and they should last for many years.

 

[captstu]

You may be right about Mack boring - I don't have a direct contact.

Our local Yanmar supplier, Marina One, has informed me that Yanmar no longer supplies major parts for the BY series and once stock is exhausted, no more will be available. They will supply "common" parts that are used in other engines.

This may be a unique situation to South Florida - again, I have no way of knowing for sure, only the paperwork they showed me.

Also, my local Dry Stack place evicted me after three years - again, this may be unique to them -- or me -- but they said they will no longer accommodate Diesel boats.

Finally, when I had the engine oil pressure advisory installed at a local Yanmar dealer, they couldn't get the oil pressure to work again. A second dealer was also unable to repair the first dealers problems with Yanmar's help - I was told to bring the engine to the Tampa area and the Florida equivalent of Mack Boring would "try" to fix it.

These may be unique experiences to south Florida - or me - but it leaves me concerned that service and parts for legacy Diesels may be very hard and very expensive (I put about $2000 into the oil pressure fix before I did it myself).

My experience may not duplicate your experience - there seems to be little consistency among marine service facilities. I sure hope when I decide to sell my Ranger the buyer has years of positive experience.

Thanks for the note.

 

[Brian B]

When I mentioned to the local dealer that Ranger Tugs has redesigned their boats, stopped production of a few and are now using Yamaha outboards, he just shook his head, and said "good luck with that".

 

[dclagett]

Stuart,

I am surprised you cannot get parts for your Mase generator. I don't know what model Mase RT put in your Classic 25, but on my RT25SC I have a Mase 2.7 which is still being manufactured and is currently part of the Mase product line. It is a single cylinder air cooled Yanmar. I would talk to Sergio Miguel Technical Manager at Mase in Florida. His phone number is 754-703-5153.

Also if parts for older diesel engines are being stopped from being imported because of EPA regulations, I would assume older outboard parts would come under the same regulation. Engines are engines and if they don't meet current EPA regulations for air quality it doesn't make any difference whether the engines are on an outboard or installed in a boat bilge.

 

[agallant80]

I must be in the minority here. I am thrilled that the R27 is now powered by one of the best outboard engines on the market and will be ordering one in the late spring.

 

[dclagett]

agallant80,

I don't think you will be in the minority. Times are changing and outboards are in demand. I have seen the change where I live on the Atlantic Coast. Years ago offshore fisherman started using outboards to get to the fishing grounds which in my area can be 80 to 100 miles offshore. The outboard boat speed allowed them to get to the fishing grounds in half the time of a inboard sport fishing boat at a much lower cost. The compromises are getting wet and be willing to sit in a bean bag chair to take the pounding instead of a plush salon sofa, but for many that is not a problem.

I have had 4 outboard boats and have enjoyed every one of them. However at this time there are a lot of people like me that wanted a pocket trawler for traveling and like the classic style of the RT25 & RT27. If when I purchased my RT25SC Ranger Tug only had the outboard versions I would not be an RT owner or on this forum.

It is great to have choices. I hope though if RT decides to stick with the outboards and the Euro styling, that they sell the molds for the RT25 & RT27 to a manufacture that will support the market for the small pocket trawlers.

 

[baz]

If RT does well selling lots of outboard RT models and gets their spare cash holdings in good shape, then maybe they can expand their Auburn R-23 factory out the back (they have plenty of room there) and setup for the Classic styled R-25/R-27 inboard diesel models again.... so long as there's a market for them. Low volume sales however, will doom that idea in a hurry. 😱

I do have an issue with the "instead of a plush salon sofa" aspect.

I owned the R-25 (Classic) for 7 yrs and now have had the R-27/OB for maybe some 4 months. I've used both in fairly rough seas and quite honestly running either at the 6 to 10 kts in those kind of seas the ride is comparable. Both will bounce, both handle much the same heading into the waves, both handle much the same with waves on the beam, both handle much the same in following seas, and so on. Several times when on the R-25 my 1st mate would be very comfortable in the V-berth area and with me alerting there are rough conditions ahead, 1st mate has been thrown up to the foredeck ceiling. The V-berth does require seat belts at times IMO and people in that section of the boat best have good hearing to heed the Captain's announcements. :lol:

 

[YukonRon]

agallant80,
The outboard boat speed allowed them to get to the fishing grounds in half the time of a inboard

That's great for a commercial fisherman. Has nothing to do with me in my retirement trawler. I am quite happy to put the "hurry up and relax" days behind me. I hope there are still others that feel the same. As for the rest, I will happily smile and wave as you zip by on plane with your outboards.
Save me a spot at the anchorage. I'll catch up with you at Happy Hour.
🙂