not hard start, won't start

[captd]

Andrew.
Hate to bring it up, but I can not seem to connect to Randy Day of Northwest Cummins Diesel. He stopped returning my calls.
After telling me he had the module coming that day or the next, that he would airmail it to Missoula and they would send out someone to fix it. Missoula has not heard a word from them. And he now won't returm my calls. Been a couple of weeks. Remember I had you put my name on the list for update months ago.

Lot of money sitting tied to the dock , but won't start. Sorry I did't get the Yanmar. 🙁 :evil:
captd

 

[captain's cat]

captd, I cannot believe they are letting a customer like you sit there with an engine that won't start! Any luck yet??
:cry:
Charlie

 

[sparky]

Here is the name and number of a gentleman from Cummins NW who was instrumental in getting my 130 hp sorted out, even though I live in Virginia. He is the General Manager for Marine Service. He may not like me posting this, but frankly I don't care. This Cummins has been a frustration from the second month we had our boat. Once the ECM went in, and the starting battery replaced, life has been great. Pat helped us with a faulty coolant cap (took 3 tries to get one that sealed the engine)

Pat McCullough 206-391-8285
also email at Donald.p.mccullough@cummins.com

Feel free to tell him I gave you the number! Monika Bradley (aka Sparky) in Virginia Beach, VA 😀

 

[JTREV]

To everyone out there that has had the hard starting issue

What were the symptoms of the hard starting issue? how many starting trys did you go through before the engine finally kicked over?

My boat sat for 4+ months and when I pulled it out of storage she fired up in less than 2 seconds (I did prime the fuel primer until it got stiff - about 7 pumps). That was a little over 2 weeks ago. Saturday I needed to change the oil so I went to start the engine to warm up the oil. I pressed the primer button about 4 times before it was stiff & then went to start it. This time it took 4 full cycles to start?? Sunday I replaced the impeller, so I thought that I should run the engine and make sure the water pump worked and didn't have any leaks. The engine took 2 whole starting cycles to start and that was just one day since the last time it was ran.

Are these the same symptoms that has been happening to everyone else, or am I just worrying for nothing? I thought that it was interesting that it sat for over 4 months and started right up, but then after just a couple of weeks it had a little trouble starting.

John

 

[sparky]

John,

The issue with our Cummins 130 was that at first (beginning late August 2008) she worked, then the weather got colder and the boat sat for 3 weeks unused (November 2008) and it would take longer and longer to start. By December at 12-15 tries we would give up, as the engine just would not start, just crank and not turn over.

We all messed around with the ground strap from the engine block to the bonding post, our starting battery was replaced, Cummins mechanics ran their diagnositics, reprogrammed the thing and nothing was found. Until Andrew and Cummins NW came to the conclusion that the ECM, the computer module on the port side of the engine, was bad.

Upon replacing the ECM our boat started up on the first or second try, every time since, and it has been about 3 months now. What a delight!

So a couple times to start is nothing to worry about. If you have fuel, non clogged filters and an open seacock, and you get to more than six tries I would say you have a problem developing. Just my non-mechanic opinion.

Sparky
Starry Night

 

[JTREV]

Sparky,

Thanks for the info. I just called Andrew and he said the same thing as you. Since I have had my boat for over a year that I most likely would have had the problem by now. Although I only have about 60 ours on her.

Looks like I will make sure that my ground wires are clean and making good contact and check my fuel line clamps then it's happy boating...

John

 

[captd]

30 plus than started. Smoked like crazy. Got it to my dock. Wouldn't start for a few days. One day after about 7 cranks she fired. Tried it again the next day, it refused to fire.

This morning I call NW Cummins. ( they didn't call me) Randy Day says he has got the new ECM in his hand. He got it last thursday. Now he said he must program it and would I go down to the boat and get 4 number off the old ECM. Question: Did any of you hard starters have to have the numbers off the old ECM? It is a # for each cylinder.

It is scary, Sounds like GM all over again.
captd

 

[Andrew Custis]

Darrel,

We have not stopped working with Cummins. I have three boats in my yard right now waiting on ECM's. One of those customers boat has been sitting here for 3 weeks. Randy made a commitment to John Livingston that all of our hard starters that were emailed to me and put on the list would be fixed within 15 days. We are almost at 30 days but I know Cummins is scrambling to get this done. In Randy's defense he has been at the hospital with some personal issues. I will follow up with your case here Darrel.

 

[Denise]

Hello
We also have a cold start issue and are waiting for ECM to come in( Northeast area)
My husband has other Cummins Diesels and they have a heater for the Air intake . We used a hair dryer on the air intake heating it and she started right up. May be a solution if you are stuck and waiting for the ECM.

 

[AKDAVE]

I got my new ECM today. Boat started with a couple of turns of the starter on the first try. I hope this is a sign of things to come. Thanks to Andrew and Cummins for getting this fixed, though I had hoped it would be a bit quicker.

We are off to Homer this afternoon in search of halibut.

Dave

 

[captd]

Darrel,

We have not stopped working with Cummins. I have three boats in my yard right now waiting on ECM's. One of those customers boat has been sitting here for 3 weeks. Randy made a commitment to John Livingston that all of our hard starters that were emailed to me and put on the list would be fixed within 15 days. We are almost at 30 days but I know Cummins is scrambling to get this done. In Randy's defense he has been at the hospital with some personal issues. I will follow up with your case here Darrel.

Thanks Andrew
Darrel

 

[sparky]

I still feel Cummins "owes us" something for the frustration and delays, the weeks and in some cases months of our boats not being usable. And the countless days I took off work to meet mechanics at the boat to trouble shoot and try alll sorts of things that were useless until the ECM was replaced. Additional time on the warranty, cheaper spare parts, something. I feel bad for folks still waiting for resolution.

While I am glad our boat finally works, it will be a cold day in ...before I agree to another Cummins in any boat I buy. What's in the R-29? 😉

Sparky

 

[captd]

I still feel Cummins "owes us" something for the frustration and delays, the weeks and in some cases months of our boats not being usable. And the countless days I took off work to meet mechanics at the boat to trouble shoot and try alll sorts of things that were useless until the ECM was replaced. Additional time on the warranty, cheaper spare parts, something. I feel bad for folks still waiting for resolution.

While I am glad our boat finally works, it will be a cold day in ...before I agree to another Cummins in any boat I buy. What's in the R-29? 😉

Sparky

I totally agree. It has been said the reason I have gotten such poor service is that the Lucky Fin is located in such a remote place. My name was added to the hard start list months ago when in Florida. The ECM is made in a remote country and has taken months to get replacements to the US let alone to Libby Montana. Cummins knew they had a problem with these ECM's, and knew they all needed replacement, yet they only got a couple at a time.
How can two good companies come together and form a horse s*^t one. :shock:

Another question or two: Why is the poor working code taken off the old ECM and reprogramed into the new replacement? Would not all ECM's be the same for all 150 horse diesels? Why does the thing work when you first get your boat and then progressively get hard to start later? Can you imagine half way along on the way up the inside passage to Alaska and one morning after spending the night in a nice secluded anchorage, the engine will not start. I wonder how long you would wait for the fix or the part to come from Hungary or where ever. I know one thing for sure, I will never go without Sea Tow insurance.

I must say the Ranger factory, Andrew, Jeff and Yanmar ( and Wefing ) provided fast effective service for the Mis Dee and the Lucky Fin. Because of them, these problems with Cummins will be resolved. I still think we got the best boat in its class.

captd

 

[wefings]

Thanks Darrel.
The R 29 has a Yanmar BY series 260
Marc

 

[rt11002003]

I never seriously considered a R-25 with the Cummins when I was so sorely tempted to buy a R-25. I wanted the Yanmar. The reason: I have a long memory.

Almost every technology introduction in the combustion engine area for the past 40 years or so has been fraught with problems. After a fashion things were finally worked out, or abandoned. I've learned to avoid early adaption of these newer things, including computer software. But, I suffered during my learning process.

BMW twin cylinder motorcycles with partial oil cooling were introduced in the US in 1996. They had "surging problems", supposedly because of programming the fuel system for reduced emissions. They tried to deny the problem existed. Their "improvements" over the years only partially improved the situation. I had two 2004 models that surged badly and another 2004 that ran beautifully. The BMW is only one example. I quit buying new cars for about 10 years starting in the late '60s because of their poor running, etc. due to emission controls. Not all problems I'm referring to were emission control related.

To deal with specifics: around 1955 I started working with computers and other electronic equipment. The advice was always the same, run the equipment in a test environment until you're satisfied it is going to work without failure. Typically, failure will result during the "burning in" of the electronic parts.

Gene