Old Flares

[Just Limin']

Are we allowed to keep old flares onboard? If not, where/how do we discard them?

 

[sc00ter]

Yes, you can keep old flare on board...just make sure you have current ones too. Use the old ones as spares or someday when the Coast Guard Aux is around ask if you can fire a couple off for demo purposes so you and others will know what to expect.

Cheers

 

[pugtug613]

You can also turn them in at your local fire station.

 

[Brian B]

This topic was recently brought up in my fishing club's online forum. One member had been told by the Coast Guard that it is "illegal" to have expired flares onboard during an inspection.
On page 17 of the USCG boaters hand book it clearly states that expired flares can be onboard as long as currently dated flares are onboard to meet the requirements
http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/1/wor ... ns/420.PDF
Unless regulations have changed this is what I will go by. That boarding officer may have been mistaken or worked for a marine supply company.
Perhaps a USCG Auxillary member will weigh in on this.
In RI flares will be accepted by the state Fire Marshall's office.

 

[Crewdog]

I tried getting rid of some expired flares once at a City of Atlanta fire station and they said sorry, can't do it. We live in a suburban county now and haven't tried here yet.

Last month i did turn some expired flares in to the local USCG Aux flotilla and they said thanks. I believe that they actually use them for training purposes.

 

[rporterfield]

Yes! you may keep older flares on board...usually up to seven years. After that they may be ineffective or deteriorated to the point they could pose a hazard. I believe some of the West Marine stores will take them. DO NOT set them off without USCG or other law enforcement authority unless it is an emergency. That is illegal.

USCG and Solas studies have show that the best way to deploy the meteor flares is to set one off, wait approx. 20 seconds, set of the 2nd, wait another 20 seconds and deploy the third. It takes that many to attract and verify to the viewer that there is an issue needing help. That means you need at least three more to lead people in. Remember the Federal regulations are only MINIMUM requirements.

An example is the fire extinguisher requirement. The regs allow for B-1 BC fire extinguishers. Most of our boats are made up of fiberglass resins, wood, upholstery, curtains...that requires an A rating...different chemical to extinguish. The B is for fuel and flameble fluids, and C is for electrical. So if you have a fire that is started by an electrical issue it will most likely expand to wood, upholstery or fiberglass resins. If you have only BC fire extinguishers, what do you do? Look for a bucket and try to get water? If you have ABC rated extinguishers you can cover all. I have three ABC extinguishers in my R-27. One in the sleeping area in the bow, one in the aft part of the cabin by the sleeping area, and one on the aft bulkhead of the cockpit.

Robert L. Porterfield USCG Auxiliary SO-PV, FSO-PV
Buoy Navigator

 

[baz]

Hmmmm.... I had my 2014 USCG inspection yesterday and the subject of old flares did come up. I had 6 old flares that had expiration date of Oct 2012. I also had 5 new ones with expiration date of Sep 2015. So I was covered. It seems that new flares have a life expectancy per the stated expiration date of 42 months (3 and 1/2 years) from their issue/manufactured date. So some $40 every 3 years should be budgeted for.

Never place your finger around the gun's trigger unless you intend to use it and always check the barrel incase there's already a flare inside.

I did ask about the expired flares and was told that they are useful for backup, and to use them first when in an emergency. They should be fired pointing the gun downwind to avoid flare residue from falling on you and the boat.

An alternative is to use the auto flare sticks that I believe can be held. Alternatively they can be attached to the end of a boat hook pole and held off to one side of the boat to avoid the flare residue as it burns.

As an aside.... going OT here....

They also indicated it was advisable to have 3 fire extinguishers rather than just the mandatory one.

The one thing that caught my inspector's attention was the brown and green looking streaks in the engine bay immediately below the large dis wet exhaust pipe as it enters the large gray cylinder. I've noticed this residue in that past and simply wiped it off. Obviously it comes back and it was concluded it must be a leak at the double clamped exhaust pipe section at the gray cylinder. They strongly advised it be looked into as if it's oil then that's bad as it will flow to the bilge and be pumped overboard. This brown/green streaking has been discussed in this forum previously and I don't recall what the forum members' conclusions were for the cause. To me, it's not spray from the prop shaft as it turns, because it it was then the spray pattern would also be present on the underside of the engine hatch, and be present on the hull on both sides of the prop shaft. If others have this brown/green looking streaking I would like to hear back as to thoughts on its cause.

The inspector was very rigorous about checking my PFD. He wanted me to wear it and to see the compressed air cylinder showing 'green' and then wanted me to show him the manual mechanism for inflating the PFD. In previous years this was never done.

The inspector wanted to know how the anchor's chain was attached to the rode... I could not recall this and was advised to check this and to ensure if a shackle was used that it was 'wired' to avoid it from coming loose. The anchor is considered to be a safety device if ever the boat becomes adrift and to avoid beaching on rocks etc.

Final note... regardless of having the USCG 2014 sticker on the boat in plain sight, there's absolutely no guarantee this will avoid being boarded by the USCG, Homeland Security, the Sheriff, etc.

Thank goodness the Tug's horn was operative... there's always the chance it can be faulty as reported by others here. 😱

 

[TonyM]

I have donated my out of date flares to the Sea Scouts in the past, they will shoot them off in training with the USCG or the Auxiliary.
Too much red tape to shoot them yourself

 

[baz]

TonyM: Why compromise your safety by giving away your old out dated flares. More than likely they will work and should be used first before using the new ones. They are expensive. The expiration date is simply a manufactures warranty/liability aspect. I would not be surprised to see an expired flare still being operational for at least 6 years from its manufactured date.

Have other forum members checked expired flares for operations, and if so just how old were they from their manufactured date or months after their expiration date ?

 

[TonyM]

No Compromise in Safety. This was on my Sail boat and I was getting too many extras and did not want the possible liability when I sold it... I removed all the pyrotechnic devices an told the new owners they needed to get some new signalling devices to be legal. I kept the newest for my new Ranger and gave the oldest to the Sea Scouts.

 

[RProffer]

I am a retired Navy Ordnanceman, which means I handled, stored, tested and used naval explosives my whole naval career. My experience with survival smokes and flares is they will usually last twice the factory life span. That means, if the factory gives a life span of three years, then you can expect the device to last double that time if it is kept clean and dry. There is no guarantee past the original life span though.

I had a bunch of old expired flares, some 20 years old or older, that I used to put on a demo at a rendezvous we had last year. I first got permission from the marina, and notified the nearby airport, and then notified the local Coast Guard. The Coast Guard had to send along an observer. All of the flares and smokes that were on their second life span worked. Smokes and flares on their third and older life span did not do so good - many failed.

The number of flares and smokes you are required to have onboard will probably not be enough if you have an emergency. The more you have the better - even expired ones. If you must get rid of old flares and smokes, ammunition or other explosives, you can turn it over to a local military facility. They are required to accept it. You can also look in the blue pages of the phone book for Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD). They should be listed somewhere under Department of Defense. Your local police should also have a number for EOD.

I would not use automotive or railroad fusee's or flares on a boat. They throw off hot embers and could cause an explosion. You must have flares and smokes that are approved by the Coast Guard.

 

[baz]

Thanks Rick for all of that expert advice... really appreciated. 🙂

 

[tlkenyon]

We had some old flares that came with the boat. Being quite inland, we used them during the annual 4th of July fireworks show. I figured no one would mistake them for a legitimate distress signal amongst all the other pyrotechnics that are allowable here on the great plains. 😀

One year we also did an expired parachute flare in this manner. We were all amazed at the brightness and duration.

 

[JamesTXSD]

One place where I worked, we did monthly safety training... including firing off a flare (expired). If you haven't used a hand-held flare before, it is an eye-opening experience: they last a couple minutes, but it feels like MUCH longer if you are the one holding that thing, with what looks like slag dripping off of it. Downwind, and held just a bit below straight out... hold it up and you risk having it drop firey bits on you.

Depending on location, we would contact the Coast Guard or local LE to let them know we were doing training.

Everyone who is regular "crew" onboard should know how to use the flares, as well as all the other safety equipment.

We have given expired flares to the local USCG AUX or US Power Squadron for their training purposes.

Jim B.

 

[Hydraulicjump]

So glad that TLKENYON finally said what some of us have been thinking.

We disposed of our old flares one at a time. New Years Eve. 100 miles from the ocean.

Fortunately, we were not rescued.

Or arrested.