Outboard Version of 21EC... Wouldn't That Be Cool?

.. I'd be tempted to put a 9.9 short shaft in a motor well built into the aft stern seat area .. if the stern was designed just right, you might get a power tilt option to fit. ... that opens up a big deck space that might allow another 6" on the cabin and a nice open seating area .. Rob
 
oh that is interesting....given the outvoard would fee up space in the cockpit, enlarge the cabin by moving the aft wall back 6 to 12 inches...
 
LAKERtoo":2rga68yb said:
.. I'd be tempted to put a 9.9 short shaft in a motor well built into the aft stern seat area .. if the stern was designed just right, you might get a power tilt option to fit. ... that opens up a big deck space that might allow another 6" on the cabin and a nice open seating area .. Rob
Click to expand...

Thinking "outside the box" - I like this idea!
 
First post here, but I've been lurking for a year or so. I had money down on a 21, but my ears are still ringing from the sea trial. Seemed to me that the cabin was louder than standing next to the engine. I have a deposit on a 23 now, but I'd rather have a good o/b installation on a 21. I see the problem with Ranger competing with itself at that price range, but I bet that they would sell a lot of them, and open up a new market niche.
 
I also suspect, with around a 30 HP outboard, the overall price of an R21 OB verrsion would be a good bit less than the current diesel version...
 
It is true that the inboard diesel, even on my classic 21 is a very complex motor system compared to an outboard. For service, the inboard is terrible, though on the 21 when the box is open, the systems are pretty accessible. I do like the idea of a 21 with the outboard motor well.
 
.. rethinking my 9.9 power tilt in a motor well .. I think it would take a 15-20 hp outboard for sustained travelling, but I also think it would still do a sustained 6-8 knots without having to max out the rpm... with all that weight missing from the diesel, you might need a weighted keel .. you are also transferring a lot of weight from centre mass to stern ... looks like a lot more than just swapping the ob for the diesel ...
 
The diesel only weighs about 200 lb or so, and a lot of that is above what appears to be above the center of mass, so getting rid of it might actually enhance stability. The extra weight of the OB aft would be like having a person sitting aft, which does not seem to have that much impact.

Instead of a weighted keel, how about two ballasted bilge keels? They would lower the center of mass and greatly enhance stability and tracking, not to mention possibly eliminating much of the rolling that is endemic to our round hull shapes. 😳

Elimination of the diesel would also make room for a much larger fuel tank mounted low and forward in the former engine bay, while still allowing removal (or reducing the height) of the engine box. With the room afforded by removal of the engine box, the floor of the cockpit would be raised a few inches so that it could be largely self-bailing - also making room for the larger fuel tank in the former engine bay...

Lotsa possibilities...all of which would require taking a saw to some pretty nice fiberglass...

TK
 
some interesting thoughts...

Water Ballast in the keel is interesting.

I concur that doing an outboard properly would reguire taking the saw to some pretty nice figerglass. Hoping that the Ranger Tug design folks are following this thread and see a marrket for an outboard version.

Maybe in a few years we coulld see an outbord version of the R-21 beinng marketed?

Depending on how much of the existing R-21 design could be used, maybe sooner 😀
 
Oh, please don't mention water ballast on boats. The ballasted boats are the Typhoid Mary's of the invasive species problem.

I sold my Hunter 23.5 a few years ago when this problem was hitting it's peak in Meade. The guy I sold it too keeps it in the great Salt Lake marina. It is still in use there. The 23.5 is a ballasted boat.

Wake boats that are so popular now with the go fast crowd are mostly water ballasted and are probably responsible for moving invasive species from Meade to Powell.

Sorry for the soap box, but the invasive species problem is completely out of hand on inland lakes at this point.
 
Similarities between the O/B R-23 & the I/B R-21EC?
Outboard gas engines are comparably inefficient using twice as much fuel than larger, stronger Diesel inboard engines that carry a 1/2 size fuel tank full of Diesel. +Outboard engines don't last half as long as Diesel engines.
Doing the maintenance on a small, wide open, 3 cyl Diesel engine is a breeze compared to bigger Diesel engines or any 'ol/new gasoline engine.

There are alot of good things previously mentioned in this thread about gasoline engines that hang off the stern. But Ya just can't beat a modern, smooth clean running, little Volvo Penta Diesel Engine inboard a R21-"EC", with an updated flat-planing, wave-slicing hull. Eight (8) knots are plenty for a scaled down RangerTug. With 30 HP, the I/B Diesel eng. matches the hull speed of O/B Cabin-Cruisers, clear to Catalina Island.
According to the Official Volvo Penta Diesel Service & Routine Maintenance Manual... these new little I/B Diesel engines like to run hard, forever.
*It ALWAYS costs a lot more time, money, & effort to re-engineer a boat for any major changes, and completely finishing them up to your own specs & satisfaction, than it is to find one already done like that.

"You can't always get what you want" - The Rolling Stones.

:x Bill 🙂 (R-21EC w/sm.mods.)
 
Reviving an old thread, it’s moot with the discontinuation of the EC, but having bought the last one off the line I’m glad I didn’t have to choose between the practicality of an outboard and the emotional appeal of a little diesel and perfect lines.
 
My 5 hp honda is on an outboard bracket on Poopsy. I do run it at times when I'm just fishing or really slow cruising. It is quiet and makes a nice break on occasion of shutting down the diesel. But if you've been dreaming of a real salty boat since you were 3 years old as I have, the 21 Classic with the diesel brings out the Popeye in me and everyone who gazes upon her. The outboard also is my poor man's thrusters. It gets me out of very tight docks slicker 'n snot on a glass doorknob.

I don't run the diesel at "high noise levels" The noise level difference between 6 mph and 7 mph is dramatic. I run in the sweet, low vibration and reasonable noise levels around 2500 RPM. Maybe a tad more.
 
If RT ever tools up again to make the 21EC and they're considering an ouboard maybe they'll give some thought to putting it in a well similar to our west coast dories.
That way people who like the outboard could have it without spoiling the lines of what is sure to become a classic hull design.
A 21 with a big outboard hanging off the stern on a platform or a bracket would always look like an add-on, an afterthought.
 
.. I agree that an outboard located in a well on the R21 would be a great combination .. I have a 9.9 Yamaha hung on a custom swim grid, and it will always look like an add-on.. BUT.. that little o/b drives my classic at cruising speeds at 1/2 throttle and much quieter altho the idea was for trolling .. think of the wide open space in the cock pit .. the new o/b's sip fuel and make backing out of cramped dock easy.. also the prices on the 21EC shut out a lot of us that can't see paying that kind of money for 21'.. the difference in price on the 3ym Yanmar or the Volvo diesels compared to a little o/b is a good place to start trimming back the cost ..
 
Although an outboard might be quieter, I've never heard anyone talk lovingly about the sound of an outboard as some do about the rhythmic pulse of the diesel. Heck, a diesel has substituted for a drummer on at least one YouTube video. I won't miss the sound of a 9.9 hanging off the stern of my sailboat. I don't know if I'll be one of the ones who loves the sound of the diesel, but I hope so. A wide-open cockpit would be alluring, and suggests the question: Do you consider the engine box to be more functional (as seat/table) or more of an obstruction?
 
.. I don't think that I'm in love with the sound of a diesel in a boat with such close quarters as the R21's. I think that there are pros and cons to doing away with the engine box. Some of the pro's I've thought of other than the initial cost saving, are a weighted keel, and being able to arrange seating such that not only can you hear a conversation, but you can arrange deck chairs as you want. After shutting down the diesel after a few hours, the silence is greatly appreciated. For myself, I'd prefer a much simplified boat with the same lines, with a basic interior .. a simple camping boat for big lakes or inside waters. ... I think that I'd prefer sleeping in a camp cot in the aft end than sleeping in the cramped cabin ...
 
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