Portable chartplotter performance

I'm out on the water right now fighting a strong headwind. If I can wrench the iPad from my wife I can compare it with Garmin 5212... 😀
 
baz":1t46vccj said:
I'm out on the water right now fighting a strong headwind. If I can wrench the iPad from my wife I can compare it with Garmin 5212... 😀
Click to expand...

I've always found it to be more accurate than the Garmin. Of course, in open water it's not so easy to tell, but when anchored, or travelling on a river or narrow channel the difference is easily seen.
 
That would seem to be counter intuitive...
We are comparing a device engineered to be the be-all-end-all-do-everything for the public with a tiny GPS receiver and antenna built in versus a receiver engineered specifically for navigation with a large (relative) antenna mounted high up...

While I am a fan of Apple (owned the earliest APPLE I - and had to give it back) I am not necessarily a fan-boy... I would have to be there and see that comparison before I might be convinced...
While the GPS on my tractors take about ten minutes to lock up when first started that does not indicate inferior performance compared to my car GPS that is immediately ready... The tractor knows where it is within less than an inch - the car less so (way less)...
 
Levitation":143uwkml said:
That would seem to be counter intuitive...
We are comparing a device engineered to be the be-all-end-all-do-everything for the public with a tiny GPS receiver and antenna built in versus a receiver engineered specifically for navigation with a large (relative) antenna mounted high up...

While I am a fan of Apple (owned the earliest APPLE I - and had to give it back) I am not necessarily a fan-boy... I would have to be there and see that comparison before I might be convinced...
While the GPS on my tractors take about ten minutes to lock up when first started that does not indicate inferior performance compared to my car GPS that is immediately ready... The tractor knows where it is within less than an inch - the car less so (way less)...
Click to expand...

Well, there's your answer: buy an iPad and compare. 😎 I wasn't so sure about it when the iPad first came out... until I actually used it as a chartplotter. It works. I still like my clunky ol' Raymarine, but the iPad with the Navionics app is just easier and faster. I used to marvel that the Raymarine would show which side of the 55' wide canal I was on (WAY more accurate than the Garmin chartplotter I was using at the time.) The iPad does all that and allows me to surf the web, pull up Google Earth, read an eBook, and make a Skype phone call. Those who use one of these devices aren't necessarily "fan-bois", we just find that they do make some tasks easier.

Someone probably makes a tractor mount for it. 😀
 
Levitation":3jxag2qy said:
That would seem to be counter intuitive...
We are comparing a device engineered to be the be-all-end-all-do-everything for the public with a tiny GPS receiver and antenna built in versus a receiver engineered specifically for navigation with a large (relative) antenna mounted high up...

While I am a fan of Apple (owned the earliest APPLE I - and had to give it back) I am not necessarily a fan-boy... I would have to be there and see that comparison before I might be convinced...
While the GPS on my tractors take about ten minutes to lock up when first started that does not indicate inferior performance compared to my car GPS that is immediately ready... The tractor knows where it is within less than an inch - the car less so (way less)...
Click to expand...

I agree, but I'm just reporting what I see on the screen; I'm not confusing accuracy with a fast log-on.

To reach the Gulf I have to first travel along a river, wide in some places narrow in others, then comes a long, long channel that zig-zags through shallow water and oyster bars.
It's very apparant by comparing what I see from the windows with what's on the screens that the iPad consistantly shows our position as where we actually are, while the chartplotter will regularly show us sailing along the river bank or way outside the channel markers.
I'm no Apple fanboy either, and the only Apple product I own is my original iPad1, but I do admit to being impressed with what it can do.
One possible explanation is a discrepency between the software and charts that are used on either unit..
On the iPad I use iSailor and the charts you buy for it, and obviously the Garmin uses it's own (Blue Chart G2 on mine).

I confess that I haven't compared the Lat and Long numbers for each unit but I will next time we're out, though that could be some time away unfortunately.

However, the iPad won't link to the the autopilot, and in narrow or crowded places I steer by what I see through the window anyway, not what's on the screen, so I don't worry about it too much.

In open water the Garmin works fine, and I don't set a course in the autopilot that takes us close to skinny water or obstructions.

Finally, I haven't found a spot in the Cutwater that I can't get a signal on the iPad (although visitors with an iPhone had problems), and we get a good signal inside our house too, even though it has a metal roof.
 
Well, I will have to find that app and try it...
 
A quick bit of browsing this morning has yielded information...
One point is that the 3G IPAD with the built in GPS has higher accuracy results, and locks positions more quickly, only when WiFi is enabled (and in range) - by using cell tower triangulation to refine the position derived by the basic GPS signal and by rapid downloading of initial correction data from the web as opposed to much slower downloading of that data through the GPS signal...
This would confirm the observation that his IPAD seemed more accurate (and faster) than his GARMIN ..

Apparently I need to become a fan buoy :mrgreen:

Alas, my thrifty wife purchased the WiFI Ipad, so I am not able to reproduce the higher accuracy readings compared to my Garmins...

My next post will be a partial copy of an article I found online...
 
Apple hasn't placed GPS chips into all of its popular portable devices, and that has created an opportunity for aftermarket producers, such as Bad Elf, to provide GPS capability. The original iPad and iPad 2 "Wi-Fi" models do not have built-in GPS chips, for example (see much more on iPad GPS). The iPod Touch also lacks GPS. These devices can find your location fairly accurately using WiFi positioning, but that's not good enough for turn-by-turn navigation apps, for example, which need a high degree of accuracy, and the ability to work when far away from WiFi signals.

It's understandable why Apple doesn't put GPS chips in devices that don't have mobile 3G connectivity. Many navigation apps require always-on internet access to download maps and to conduct address and services searches, for example.

The GPS add-ons are for those who still want GPS despite the limitations of non-connected devices. I plugged the Bad Elf GPS device into an original iPad WiFi model and tested it with the free Waze turn-by-turn navigation app.

When you first plug the Bad Elf module into the iPad, it prompts you to install the free Bad Elf app, if you don't already have it on board. The app is very simple, but performs the important function of letting the Bad Elf unit talk to its home servers to check for firmware updates, and it shows you GPS connectivity and signal strength.

Once you have the Bad Elf connected and the app working, it's a simple matter to switch to any of the many compatible apps that pick up the Bad Elf GPS signal.

Bad Elf was quick to get an accurate GPS fix, and worked smoothly with Waze to provide me with accurate spoken turn-by-turn directions to my destinations. I turned the iPad's WiFi off completely in settings to make sure the unit wasn't getting navigation data from WiFi locations as well. Waze must have cached my local maps, because its maps kept up with me as I traveled my local metro area. It would no doubt need access to WiFi or other connectivity to upload fresh maps on a long trip.

You can determine GPS fix status by observing whatever the individual app provides for monitoring GPS fix, or you can use the Bad Elf's green indicator light - blinking for getting a satellite fix, and solid on when GPS-locked.

You may charge your Apple device even while using the Bad Elf because it comes with a micro-USB port and compatible USB cable.

Overall, Bad Elf is a good and relatively inexpensive solution for bringing solid GPS capability to your Apple iOS device. There is no need to jailbreak or otherwise compromise your Apple device to use the Apple-approved Bad Elf.
 
Levitation":27xdj0y7 said:
Well, I will have to find that app and try it...
Click to expand...

It's free, as is a sample chart of the Tampa FL area, so give it a go.
 
Rather than debate whether it's faster to acquire satellites and more accurate than many stand alone GPS units, how 'bout let's all agree that the iPad (all models with cellular connectivity, NOT the wifi only models) are another alternative for navigating? Yes, one can certainly add an external GPS to wifi only models; since the cost is about the same to get the models that have the built-in GPS chip as buying a wifi only model then adding a plug-in GPS, why not go for the most efficient model (my quotes) right off the bat?

The iPad as a chartplotter works. I would be comfortable using it as a primary nav unit (and have). If you have a use for the other features of the iPad (computing, eReader, video viewer, e-mail, Skype, tide charts, weather station, etc, etc, etc), you can add a chartplotter for around $50 (for the app) and have charts for the entire US and Canada, including most inland lakes/rivers. Compared to a stand alone chartplotter, or even ONE AREA CHIP for that chartplotter, the iPad is a hot deal!

As a side note, it is very rare that we have our personal wifi hotspot on when navigating with the boat. It just isn't necessary.

Fan "buoy"... now, that's funny! :mrgreen:

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
Probably not as many people people have an iPad as have an iPod Touch.
For the iPod Touch owners, this might be a useful accessory. It adds a GPS receiver as the original Bad Elf does, but instead of a dongle plugged into the dock connector it uses a cradle which can be attached to a windshield or any glass surface, or it can be hand held.
In my mind the advantage lies in both the cost, a little under $40 vs a little over $100, and it doesn't have a dongle which could easily damage itself or the dock connector if it gets caught against something.

It's a TOMTOM product which I found on eBay here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-TomTom-...er_MP3_Player_Accessories&hash=item33690cf615

I've no connection to the seller.

28vskk0.jpg


Another alternative would be the new Bad Elf GPS Pro which uses Bluetooth and is a stand alone unit with no physical connection required, and can be found on the Bad Elf site here: http://bad-elf.com/products/be-gps-2200/
 
I don't think the Pro version of Bad Elf is available until Nov.
 
JamesTXSD":3h50ubo0 said:
Rather than debate whether it's faster to acquire satellites and more accurate than many stand alone GPS units, how 'bout let's all agree that the iPad (all models with cellular connectivity, NOT the wifi only models) are another alternative for navigating? Yes, one can certainly add an external GPS to wifi only models; since the cost is about the same to get the models that have the built-in GPS chip as buying a wifi only model then adding a plug-in GPS, why not go for the most efficient model (my quotes) right off the bat?

The iPad as a chartplotter works. I would be comfortable using it as a primary nav unit (and have). If you have a use for the other features of the iPad (computing, eReader, video viewer, e-mail, Skype, tide charts, weather station, etc, etc, etc), you can add a chartplotter for around $50 (for the app) and have charts for the entire US and Canada, including most inland lakes/rivers. Compared to a stand alone chartplotter, or even ONE AREA CHIP for that chartplotter, the iPad is a hot deal!

As a side note, it is very rare that we have our personal wifi hotspot on when navigating with the boat. It just isn't necessary.

Fan "buoy"... now, that's funny! :mrgreen:

Best wishes,
Jim B.
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Don't forget FaceTime on the iPad -- http://www.apple.com/iphone/built-i...permguid=223740c5-8686-4c79-ad7d-01de2b5010d0. Communicating with family and friends in the UK from the PNW area is a dream, it's free and works for us flawlessly. Just be sure to angle the iPad so the other end isn't looking straight up your nostrils. 😀
 
baz":3aftxini said:
Don't forget FaceTime on the iPad -- http://www.apple.com/iphone/built-i...permguid=223740c5-8686-4c79-ad7d-01de2b5010d0. Communicating with family and friends in the UK from the PNW area is a dream, it's free and works for us flawlessly. Just be sure to angle the iPad so the other end isn't looking straight up your nostrils. 😀
Click to expand...

No cameras on an original iPad so we use Blackberry Playbooks for that.
However, we find it more interesting to use the rear camera, so that the person you are talking to can see where you are and see what what you're seeing, and vice versa.
 
This has been for me at least, a very informative thread. I started it because I was debating whether to update my old chartplotter and purchase the appropriate chip for the Pacific NW. With Tugnut input I've evolved to a relatively inexpensive and very effective system based on my iPad.
Garmin and other manufacturers of chartplotters should be concerned. If they join the trend by making their own downloadable navigation apps (and Garmin intends to) they are if anything, accelerating the replacement of their expensive and presumably, high profit margin, portable chartplotters with much lower margin software.
And perhaps not just portables. I'll use my iPad as backup to the Garmin 5212 but a sailing friend I shared this information with who mainly daysails and only occasionally cruises, has decided to use the iPad as his primary navigation tool. I also noticed that, in another friend's car, the dash was designed so that his smartphone could be plugged in as the - only - navigation device.
With further evolution of pads and smartphones and more apps being developed for them the makers of dedicated navigational devices need to rethink their business strategies.
 
GulfSailor":2wos624h said:
baz":2wos624h said:
Don't forget FaceTime on the iPad -- http://www.apple.com/iphone/built-i...permguid=223740c5-8686-4c79-ad7d-01de2b5010d0. Communicating with family and friends in the UK from the PNW area is a dream, it's free and works for us flawlessly. Just be sure to angle the iPad so the other end isn't looking straight up your nostrils. 😀
Click to expand...

No cameras on an original iPad so we use Blackberry Playbooks for that.
However, we find it more interesting to use the rear camera, so that the person you are talking to can see where you are and see what what you're seeing, and vice versa.
Click to expand...

I keep pace with technology and trade/sell our previous models for not much less than the cost of the new stuff. iPhones in particular can be sold for more than the cost of a new 'upgrade' model.

Technology moves at such a fast pace today that you fall seriouly behind after 3 years without an upgrade.
 
Had I NOT already spent mucho bucks on a laptop with Active Captain/Rose-Point as a back up system I would be trading up our WiFi Ipad for a 4G model... Otoh, none (or much) of the current ability/apps of the IPAD 2 was available at that time...

So even if I can't be a fan buoy, maybe I can be a groupy hanging around the stage door?
 
Levitation":1fist90y said:
So even if I can't be a fan buoy, maybe I can be a groupy hanging around the stage door?
Click to expand...

Just don't do anything you might regret later in life! :twisted:
 
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