power use

Ed604":25iv4rm6 said:
Hello Brian,

I had a quick question for you. When you are using the generator are you plugging the shore power cord into the generator or, are you connecting the generator directly to the battery bank and using the 12v feature of the gen set?

if you are using the 12v feature, do you just use jumper cables or did you splice up some eyes and alligator clips for the cable to connect it? I am thinking that going direct to the bank will get the most efficient use of the gen set?
I have purchased a larger panel and am going to test it out to see how it goes on my trip. I am also going to bring the gen set as I do have the room. I just hope not to have to use it!

thanks,
Ed604
Click to expand...

Most inverter type generators 12V source is less than 10 amps. Some 8amps or 6amps not enough to really do anything when charging a 200 AH bank at 50% charge.

I use a 10' cord 8/3 AWG round boat cable. 30amp plug on one side 20amp plug other side. I have a ground to neutral adapter plugged into the generator when I use it on the boat. Start generator, turn main panel breaker on then turn battery charger on. The key to charging the batteries is to try to do a full cycle ( full charge after depleting the charge) The issue with the standard charger on the Rangers and Cutwaters C26, C28, R25, R27 and maybe the larger Fluid Motion boats. The factory installed charger was only 20 amps. This is not big enough to charge the batteries when at 50% discharge. The charger max output is 20 amps charging three banks. Installing a larger charger will reduce the run time and charge the batteries to or close to a full charge in a shorter period of time. Maintaining the batteries for days without a full charge will shorten the life cycle. Ask me how I know! When I had the Cutwater I never had a dead battery but I never had a battery at full charge when we stayed at anchor for a few days. The key to good lead acid battery maintenance when staying on the hook for days in my opinion is Solar, Solar, Solar and a back up way to charge the batteries to a full cycle each day. Next is battery capacity 400 AH minimum (Lead Acid) 600AH is better. Thats a lot of battery in a small boat. If I had my C26 now it would have Lithium batteries and a full aluminum frame covering the cockpit. The frame would be covered with Sunbrella and above the Sunbrella covering would be solar panels a minimum of 400 Watt preferably 600 Watt if I could get them to fit.
 
I thought I would post a follow up on this thread after 10 days in Desolation. Here is what I found:
1- my best day with the solar was 8.3 amps charging at mid day, more often much less 3 - 4amps
2- with no lighting use, no inverter use, and just flushing, and two fridges I got 24hrs before depleting the bank. 400ahr agm

The existing system helps but can’t keep up. I intend to install the 355w panel. Existing wire is 10awg so can be re used. The existing ep solar 10amp charge controller will be removed and replaced with a victron 30amp controller. I hope that more watts, and mppt style system will allow better results.

I will be bringing the generator even with the upgraded solar.

I will post follow up when the new parts are installed and tested.
Ed 604
 
Ed604":2it4jurm said:
I thought I would post a follow up on this thread after 10 days in Desolation. Here is what I found:
1- my best day with the solar was 8.3 amps charging at mid day, more often much less 3 - 4amps
2- with no lighting use, no inverter use, and just flushing, and two fridges I got 24hrs before depleting the bank. 400ahr agm

The existing system helps but can’t keep up. I intend to install the 355w panel. Existing wire is 10awg so can be re used. The existing ep solar 10amp charge controller will be removed and replaced with a victron 30amp controller. I hope that more watts, and mppt style system will allow better results.

I will be bringing the generator even with the upgraded solar.

I will post follow up when the new parts are installed and tested.
Ed 604
Click to expand...
Once you get above 300 watts you’ll notice a huge difference.

The factory panel of about 160 watts pretty much keeps up with your refrigerator. I have 400 watts of solar.

Here’s what you can expect based on various sized solar arrays.
https://www.letsgochannelsurfing.com/solar-power?pgid=kxcvhybj-984f2fdc-512b-4708-af84-e932b613eda6


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Ed,
I’m surprised by your energy consumption given how little you say you are using. When you say “depleting the bank” of your 400 amp hour house bank are you saying the under load house bank voltage was under 11.8 volts? Remember, with a 400 AmpHour bank of healthy AGM batteries you should be getting 280 AmpHours of power before your batteries are down to 30% SOC. Under 30% SOC is where you might start damaging AGM batteries. A number of sources say you can even take AGMs down to 20% SOC (11.7 volts under load) with very minimal impact of lifespan.
Using up 280 AmpHrs of power in 24 hours is a lot of energy consumption! We use the same things you do on our C-28 and only consume about 70-80 AmpHrs a day. Are you leaving the wine cooler, Chartplotter, VHF radio, stereo, tv running 24/7 too? We keep our wine cooler and the other things off and will be removing the wine cooler soon. We do have a portable freezer that adds about 50 AmpHrs or so a day to our draw but even adding that in we are still way lower than your consumption rate. Something just doesn’t seem right.
Regardless, going to the bigger solar panel and MPPT controller will definitely help.
 
One thing a generator does for you is grant peace of mind. Takes some of the worry out of a trip.

Lot's of really good answers here, but in the end I'm with Brian, get the generator.

On the water there are always variables that are not accounted for on land. Lack of sun due to weather is obvious. I've had two other experiences that never dawned on me.

I took the boat to Fire Island National Seashore last year, expecting to stay at one of the marinas and use shore power. I didn't have the right adapter for their pedestal. The park service used an older type 50 amp 125 volt system. There were only a few boats and my generator was not a nuisance. I went around and asked.

Just last week I took the boat to Island Beach State Park in New Jersey. Anchored up. Beautiful weather. Super moon that night. Figured solar would take care of re-charging. Next morning I got up, went clamming, beach combing. I come back in the afternoon and see the solar is not putting out much, like 1.5 amps. We have full sun. Hmmm.

I was really tired and had to take a quick nap. I get up, still not much power. WTH?

Finally go look up top and find my solar panel (200 watts) is totally covered in sea gull 'stuff'. Like one of them had gastro intestinal distress. Yuck. They must have roosted on the solar panel that night. Cleaned it up with raw water wash down, but too late to charge much. Fire up the genny and I'm good.

Never occurred to me that this could be a problem.

As I said, the genny takes the worry out of it.

-martin610
 
Ed604":2j9que4b said:
2- with no lighting use, no inverter use, and just flushing, and two fridges I got 24hrs before depleting the bank. 400ahr agm
Click to expand...

+1 to glider4, the house bank should not be depleted after 24 hours. Looking back at my log, the last time we anchored with our former C30, I made this note: "Battery @ 1100 [hours] = 12.8v, 100% after 24 hours". Of course it was not really "100%" but had not declined enough yet to assess accurately.

A previous entry notes "1930 [hours] 12.6v [90%] Day 1 0845 [after overnight] :12.45v [80%] Day 2 0920 : 12.2v [50%]". We experienced consumption similar to these entries every time and only worried about charging after 48 hours.

That was using 2 refrigerators, some lights, some stereo, and no chartplotter, and with 4 year old batteries. So there is something unusual or unclear going on.
 
Thanks guys,
For us, the first day we arrived coming from a full charge off the marina and our travel time. We saw 2 days till 12.3volts.

The problem was that we could never really fully recharge the batteries in following days. I even turned the second fridge in the cockpit off to see about extending the time. This really does work well, but I didn’t like the idea that I had to be so stingy with the power.

On the hook is where it’s at! And I don’t want to listen to the genset run but, I do want to feel that I can run anything I want appliance wise, within reason of course. This is why I will carry a genset and hope I don’t need it.

Shading from rafting up to large boats probably is a factor here too.

With that said first priority is the biggest solar panel I can fit using the 10 awg wire the stock system has and switching to the more efficient style of panel.

As I said I will follow up with results of this.

Ed604
 
We have a 355W panel and 145AH of usable power (at 50% SOC). This is enough that we can anchor almost indefinitely as long as there is some sun. I suspect a larger solar panel will solve your issue. We are also using stock wiring with a Victron 100/30 controller. I’ve seen over 20A of charge at times.


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We have the factory 160W panel on our R-23 (the R-23 was spec’d at the time with a 90W panel, but our is 160W - either a mistake or a supply chain issue during COVID). I replaced the stock controller with a Victron 100-30, and I have seen as much as 940Wh (78Ah) in a single day (coastal North Carolina). With 90-95 degree days, that’s enough to keep the refrigerator running and come back to the boat with about 30-40% SoC on my 400Ah LiFePO4 battery bank.


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