Practical Question of a potential buyer

schm821@aol.com

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Fluid Motion Model
C-24 C
I am 71 and thinking of trading my 35' sailboat for a 2012 or 2014 Ranger 27 but have several practical questions.
1) Any thoughts on whether an outboard on newer models would be better than a diesel?
2) One boat has a Volvo engine, the other a Yanmar; any preferences as I have been pleased with my Yanmar powered sailboat?
3) I plan to trailer it all over the US, are there any difficulties getting this inboard on a trailer?
4) One trailer comes with 3 axles, the other only 2 which seems to be pushing the weight limit of the tires. Any thoughts?

Thank you for your help. If all goes well I'll be an owner later this month.

Rob
 
Rob,
I love our inboard R25 inboard Classic. With the newer gas OB you have issues with gasoline on board (vs diesel for the inboards), dinghy storage and a very heavy rear end. Lots of pluses for the OBs including speed, increased storage area and easier maintenance. It depends on what features and performance issues are important to you.
If it were me I’d go for the Volvo engine. Nothing wrong with the Yanmars though. Since the factory is still using Volvo engines I think the support from Volvo is a bit better but that’s just my opinion.
A triple axle trailer for the 27 is probably better than the two axle trailer all other things being equal. That said I’d take a dual axle aluminum trailer with electric over hydraulic brakes over a steel triple axle with electric drum brakes every time.
PS: Tires should be Load Range E. No general issues getting a 27 on or off a trailer other than the “Ranger bump” to get it tight against the trailers now roller. A search on this site for “Ranger bump” will give you more info on that.
 
schm821@aol.com":1xpkcs5v said:
3) I plan to trailer it all over the US, are there any difficulties getting this inboard on a trailer?
4) One trailer comes with 3 axles, the other only 2 which seems to be pushing the weight limit of the tires. Any thoughts?

3) I have an R25 and although launching/retrieving can be difficult on some ramps, it is not, in general, an issue. It does sit high and therefore a shallow ramp requires the trailer to be further in the water which in turn requires the tow vehicle to be in the water further. I have been to one ramp where I launched with difficulty and elected to have the marina's truck retrieve. Also, my trailer does not have protection under the prop so I learned the hard way to carefully examine road cambers when getting on/off roads.

4) I have a steel 2 axle trailer that is at it's maximum rated weight capacity. Two out of the 4 bolts holding up the boat on the trailer have broken (not at the same time!) so, yes 2 is definitely pushing it.
 
We all will rationalize why we purchased what we have. I have the R-27 2011 with the Yanmar inboard. To me either Volvo or Yanmar are good. My observation is Yanmar is easier to get parts and somewhat less expensive and more service people. Coming from a sailboat, speed is not an issue so the slower inboard will probably suit you fine. Outboard V inboard have advantages and disadvantages over one another. Pick your poison. I have a two axle trailer and have towed over 30,000 miles from east coast to west coast and everywhere in between. Get load range E Goodyear endurance tires and a couple of spares and change the tires every 3-1/2 years and you are golden. Three axles and you have two more tires and brakes to maintain. I really do not think 3 axles is necessary for a 27 or 25. What you did not ask about was a tow vehicle. Expect a book! 3/4 ton diesel, pick a brand you like.
 
Hi Rob, we have a 2012 R27 with the Yanmar 4by2-180 and love it. I don’t have any experience with the Volvo powered boats but I know they have 200 HP vs my 180 HP and are a little faster. I’ve been on a few of the new outboard R27’s at boat shows and because they’re a true planning V hull boat they don’t seem as stable at the dock. The older boats have that heavy diesel sitting low in the hull and the boat doesn’t move around when at anchor or docked. That said the outboard boats are fast and that’s a big plus for a lot people. As far as trailering, I agree with Mike on everything he said about a tandem axle trailer with the Goodyear Endurance tires, less maintenance, cheaper to own and they really do tow nicely. If the trailer is setup for the inboard boat you have plenty of clearance between the hull and the trailer. I’ve used many different ramps by myself and so far I’ve not had any issues but planning is key. Good luck!

Tim and Donna
Gratitude
 
Went from an Ericson '25 to a RT25, now RT29s
had a 2 axle trailer for the RT25. No trailer for the RT29.
I think you should go with 3 axle for the 27 IMHO....
 
In regards to the outboards you lose the ability to have heat in the cabin while under way. Which means you have to run the onboard heater if it has one. Additionally, you lose the ability to heat your hot water tank with an outboard, unless you can run the inverter while underway. If they are set up to run the inverter then, you're good to go, if not then its off to the marina or running a noisy ginny! Also can you say dingy placement? All this depends on your style of use. If you like being on the hook more than a marina, then the inboards seem a better choice.

I pull my R25 with an aluminum 2 axle trailer that was built for Cutwater 28 refurbished for a 25. So it's a
bit longer and I have no problems launching. I like a 2 axle better just because they turn sharper. You are putting a lot of pressure on those tires while turning sharp and that is grinding a lot of rubber off and very easy to roll one off the rim if one gets low in pressure and or in a steep approach.
 
Ranger started using a 2 axle trailer for the 27OB, but apparently they couldn't get the balance where they wanted it and went to a 3 axle trailer. I went with a 3 axle trailer for my 27OB before Ranger made the change as I just wanted a stiffer heavier duty trailer. I have seen too many 2 axle trailers flexing going down the road. Also the 27OB is near the upper limit of a 2 axle trailer, maybe over the limit if full of fuel and gear. I wanted more safety margin so I went with a heavy duty 3 axle trailer. No regrets so far, except the dealer set the bunks up wrong and I am working on correcting that now.
Balance on the 27 Diesel is different than the 27OB, so you might be able to get away with a 2 axle trailer, but you might be close to the weight margins.
 
Rob:

The older diesel 27 and newer outboard 27 are different hulls. Different strengths and tradeoffs. Its not just a case of what powerplant is "best". Its "best for WHAT"? Underwater, they are very different.

The traditional wisdom is a diesel has a longer operating life by a factor of hundreds of percent. But outboards are much easier to replace when the time comes. That old wisdom seems to be breaking down as outboards have become increasingly reliable and durable. Its still probably somewhat true, but that gap has closed some.

The real difference in overly-simple terms is the outboard is a go-fast engine. So in the redesign of the 27 the new hull is more of a go-fast hull with a cabin top design like an old go-slow trawler. They will behave differently because they are designed to optimize performance for different missions.

The vocabulary of hulls is misleading because words convey more hard certainty than is true in the real world. Do a search and you will read: a) displacement, b) semi-displacement, and c) planing hulls. The reality is that once you cross the Rubicon from displacement to semi-displacement, it is more of a smooth curve in the transition between semi-displacement and planing.

The true semi-displacement trawlers have a deep fore-foot V shape at the bow, that transitions back to flat at the stern transom. The chines are either hard angled or have some small amount of curve. A planing Deep V hull remains very much of a V shape at the stern transom. There are planing hulls that go flatter more forward and carried aft. Like I said, its not an easy thing to describe. But the over-riding concept is a planing hull is designed to provide a lot of lift in the shape to get on top of the water, and doing that requires speed, that speed requires horsepower, and that horsepower converts to more fuel burn.

The diesel Rangers all have some amount of V at the stern. And a keel like traditional trawlers. Look at the new R27 and you will see a couple of things. Its a deeper V at the stern. Forward in the shoulders there is something that looks like 4 inch discs have been cut into the hull maybe an eighth inch deep. Those discs are there to create air pockets to reduce water friction at planing speeds. That is speedboat planing hull design.

Again, words fail fast in describing this, but it seems to me there is a lot about the Ranger diesels that share more heritage with pilot boats than semi-displacement trawlers. Pilot boats are designed to speed fast in rough ocean conditions to incoming freighters and deliver pilots to them for the run to the destination port. They have some V in the stern for lift, have a keel, and have a reasonably deep forefoot. Its about stability at speed.

In calm water at displacement speeds a flatter hull will be more stable in feel because it has buoyancy at the edges vs. the centerline. Ditto at the dock or at anchor. When things get rougher the buoyancy at the edges of the flatter hull sections at the edges are lifted by waves more than the V whose buoyancy is more centered. The wider the beam for a given length the more this is true, and narrower the beam the less that is true. Levers with longer or shorter length. Best piloting strategies and techniques in rough weather can differ by hull design. I've seen some videos of fast planing cruisers running fast in rough water cutting across the wave tops and handling it very well. A semi-displacement trawler isn't going to do that so its strategies need to be organized around cutting through and over, or following the back of a wave at the wave's speed. The entire notion of what is "safe" is itself a tough concept. A fast pilot boat is plenty safe, and a trawler is plenty safe, but safe differently when handled differently.

No matter what, speed means more fuel burn per mile. You trade your time for your money.

Generally speaking, that tradeoff isn't a smooth straight curve, either. Fuel burn measured either in GPH or MPG plotted as a curve is flat at low speeds where a little more speed has a slight incremental cost in burn. But the curve does curve upward to points were one extra knot in speed has a big incremental cost in burn. In planing hulls there is that middle ground that is death to efficiency, where its pushing a wall of water but not yet up on plane. Push up onto plane and efficiency improves, the curve dips back down and then at high speeds goes vertical again. Its an S shaped curve. In true semi-displacement its a curve up until it goes vertical and no amount of extra power is going to produce more speed. Some of those designs are designed to flatten that curve into more of a straight line, but with some other tradeoffs I'll ignore.

See my comments at the end of the thread I started about "Speed Habits - Poll". The "Best Boat" depends a lot on how YOU plan to use it. If you want low fuel burn and go great distances at slower speeds, the older diesel R27 should be a great boat for that. If you want to get there fast and are willing to open the wallet for the gas bill to do it, the outboard R27 should be a great boat for that. Accommodations and interior will be pretty similar even if having some slight differences.

You have to choose.

I am trying to, myself. You can have anything you want, just not everything you want. Life can be a bitch that way. 🙂

Good luck.
 
thought about this axle question a bit more. let me put it this way: for my RT29s, Lewmar recommends two anchors the 14lb for boats 20ft to 35ft (if memory serves) and the 22lb for boats 25t to 40ft. I'm sleeping better at night on the hook with the 22lb anchor.... so, I recommend the 3 axle
 
I have been looking at tug/trawler style boats for a number a number of years, Rangers, Nordic, American.
Bought a 2016 R-27 Classic late last year and only have been underway about an hour or two during the surveyor's shake down.

This style of boat is what appealed to me.
I am familiar with OB powered boats and the CG AUX patrol boat we use is an older (20 year) Boston Whaler cabin style.
Twin 225 HP 2-stroke Yamahas. Smoky and noisy!
Mine is a 220 HP Volvo IB diesel.
I like the stability of the diesel located forward in the bilge area as opposed to hanging off the stern.
To me the styling went out the window with the newer OB equipped Rangers.
And to me the cabin and hull style are more speed boat looking than trawler but, that's just my old fashioned idea.
The market has to change to keep up with the buyer's demand.

OK I'll get off the soapbox now.
Someone else's turn.
Bill
 
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