Promariner Combi 1500QS

T

Trisailor

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
131
Fluid Motion Model
C-28
Hull Identification Number
FMLT2720H011
Vessel Name
Fancy Nancy (2011 R27)
My R27's Promariner inverter/charger has stopped working. After removing it from the boat and troubleshooting on a bench in the garage, I have concluded the transfer switch functionality is bad. I have power in, but, no power out of the main circuit card to the charger or inverter.
Promariner's response to queries about repair or trade in have been lukewarm and unencouraging. They apparently no longer manufacture the combi units, so have suggested I go to a Trupower plus inverter. No suggestions about a battery charger. I've searched the forum on the Promariner topic and have seen all the discussion on similar issues.
My questions to the forum are:
1: Who has replaced their Promariner combi with other combined charger/inverter units, what type, and how reliable has the replacement been? I have seen mention here of both Kisae and Magnum

2: Has anyone gone the separate charger and inverter route, and how has that been?

Any and all suggestions are welcome.
 
Hi,

I replaced my Promariner combo unit with a Magnum Energy MS-2812. It works flawlessly. Could not be happier with that decision.

Regards,

Ed P.
 
I have installed the ProMariner ProNautic 12V 30-Amp Battery Charger along with a KISAE SW1220 2000W, 12V Pure Sine Wave Inverter. I believe the key component to the longevity of the charger and inverter is making sure the installation is in a dry ,well ventilated area of the compartment. I am very happy with this combination. You can purchase the charger and inverter for less than a new 1500QS. The ProNautic charger is 10 amps less output than 1500QS but the inverter is 500 watts more and it is a pure sine wave inverter.
 
Thanks all for the replies.
I'm leaning toward the separate charger/inverter set up. It seems to take up less space and breaks up the financial outlay.

Brian, are you using the pronautic charger on AGM batteries or flooded batteries? I have AGM's on my tug (2011 R27), and just read a pretty comprehensive review, on the pronautic 1230 charger, that mentioned it was not the best for AGM's.
 
I have Northstar AGM batteries. The Promariner has a AGM setting for charging AGM Batteries. This is from the web site" User Selectable Battery Charging Type: Flooded, AGM, GEL, LifePO4 - Lithium and Custom" I have mine set on AGM. I also read a review that stated that the" temperature compensation feature built into the ProNautic charger is not well executed. The temperature compensation factor is only about 60% of what is recommended by Trojan and Rolls-Surrette and by independent authorities" He did not recommend this charger for AGM. He still rated the charger 4.0 stars. The individual sounded like he knew what he was talking about. I hope he's wrong and Promariner is right. To early to tell I replaced my 3 year old maintenance free original batteries this year and installed The North Star AGM's.
 
Hi Brian,
Thanks again for the info. I'm still figuring out all the nuances of my tug's electrical system/design.
I do have another question:
Is there any impact to the ACR's with using a 3 bank charger like the ProNautica? I presume the ACR's need to remain in place so the battery bank charges correctly when underway charh=ging off the alternator.
 
Just to follow up on Brian's comment about a dry well ventilated space. I replaced my promariner with the same unit purchased new on EBay. On installation I fabricated a plastic shield that slips under the gutter and goes down to the floor of the lazzarette. I seem to get plants of air circulation from the sides and feel better about any overflow that may occur from the gutter. I used the plastic panels they sell at Home Depot for drop ceilings and cut it to fit. I also made heated it to give it a slight bend so it goes under the gutter and then comes down vertically in front of the unit. I also regularly coat all screws and connections with corrosion block.
 
Trisailor":18esxwra said:
Hi Brian,
Thanks again for the info. I'm still figuring out all the nuances of my tug's electrical system/design.
I do have another question:
Is there any impact to the ACR's with using a 3 bank charger like the ProNautica? I presume the ACR's need to remain in place so the battery bank charges correctly when underway charh=ging off the alternator.
Click to expand...

The answer is Yes and No there are many opinions on this.The Ranger/Cutwater install is ACR's installed to work correctly when the engine is doing the charging. The ProNautica has three power charging leads that attach to each individual battery for charging requirements of the individual batteries. The ACR's can interfere with this charging process by closing, now the charger is basically charging all banks the same. There are many topics about this on TugNuts if you search for them. I still have mine wired this way. I have planned to change it but have not done it yet. My plan is to install 2 relays next to each ACR, the relays will be activated when the dash engine switch is turned on to start the engine. The relays open/close circuit will be wired to the ground wire on the ACR. Relay activated, ground circuit closed to ACR, ACR is functional. Relay not activated ground circuit open ACR is not functional. With this the ACR's are taken out during shore power charging provided engine dash switch ( IGNITION SWITCH ) is off. I believe most Rangers and Cutwaters with ProNautica have ACR's activated.
 
As some follow up to the thread below, it has been an adventure chasing wires and making the decision to go with a separate battery charger and inverter.
I have not had much luck in finding a way to get the defunct Promariner 1500 QS charger/inverter repaired. I'm still exploring that possibility, just to avoid dumping it in the recycling bin.
Today I discovered that the battery charger breaker on the master AC panel did nothing more than light an indicator light. That does make sense since the Promariner combi was basically an auto charger.
To go with a separate 3 bank charger I will have to replace that 20 amp breaker with the appropriate size breaker for the charger I choose and run a wire from the AC panel to the charger location. I think the cave bulkhead just above the electrical outlet (to the left) is a good location for the new charger
I'm also looking for a 120v continuous duty relay to hold the ACR ground wires open when the charger is in operation (plugged into shore power) and close when the power is removed. That function can also be done using a manual switch, but I would forget to switch it to the right setting at some point.
With the 3 bank charger I would be able to add another inverter at a future date.
For the time being I have connected the in/out AC wires that originally went to the inverter so the microwave and outlets will work when attached to shore power. That way the new inverter, when installed in the old location, can use the existing wire runs.
As always any and all feedback/comments are welcome.
 
I had my transfer switch go bad on my Combi 2500QS. I called Promariner tech support who told me the transfer switch is not repairable or replaceable. I installed a new Combi. At the time I called RT or recommended a different charger/inverter but I don’t recall which make and model.
 
Thanks Mike,
I found a similar listing on Amazon and was looking at the 2000PS model. I also found a place online called the inverter store, surprisingly their combi units look very similar in both price and physical specifications as the Promariner.
Thanks Bob,
I got the same disappointing info from Promariner as you. It's disappointing that an expensive piece of electronics cannot be repaired and is now an impediment to traffic on my garage floor. The transfer switch function just looks to be a current sensing coil with relays that latch to allow power to flow to the remainder of the unit. It all looks to be contained on one circuit card. I will play some more to see if I can get it working.
After a fair amount of research, I'm still leaning toward the 3 bank separate charger with a separate inverter, as mentioned by BBmarine earlier in this post. I found a good spot in the cave to mount it out of the way yet still have good cooling airflow, protection from water intrusion and it will provide a small amount of drying air from the cooling fans. Another plus with going that route is a bit more room in the cockpit locker, where the Promariner Combi lived, for storage. Any new inverter in that location is half the size (and lighter).
Thanks Again to all for the input and advice.
 
BB marine":10n3lumu said:
Trisailor":10n3lumu said:
Hi Brian,
Thanks again for the info. I'm still figuring out all the nuances of my tug's electrical system/design.
I do have another question:
Is there any impact to the ACR's with using a 3 bank charger like the ProNautica? I presume the ACR's need to remain in place so the battery bank charges correctly when underway charh=ging off the alternator.
Click to expand...

The answer is Yes and No there are many opinions on this.The Ranger/Cutwater install is ACR's installed to work correctly when the engine is doing the charging. The ProNautica has three power charging leads that attach to each individual battery for charging requirements of the individual batteries. The ACR's can interfere with this charging process by closing, now the charger is basically charging all banks the same. There are many topics about this on TugNuts if you search for them. I still have mine wired this way. I have planned to change it but have not done it yet. My plan is to install 2 relays next to each ACR, the relays will be activated when the dash engine switch is turned on to start the engine. The relays open/close circuit will be wired to the ground wire on the ACR. Relay activated, ground circuit closed to ACR, ACR is functional. Relay not activated ground circuit open ACR is not functional. With this the ACR's are taken out during shore power charging provided engine dash switch ( IGNITION SWITCH ) is off. I believe most Rangers and Cutwaters with ProNautica have ACR's activated.
Click to expand...


No relays required. Your charger has a remote rj11 port which carries low voltage for the remote panel. That voltage is sufficient to feed the inhibit input on the acr. So whenever the charger is powered from shore the acrs are disabled.
 
https://marinehowto.com/automatic-charging-relays/

Based on this article the use of relays is not warranted. It is has some good information.

stwendl":1yuhgixn said:
No relays required. Your charger has a remote rj11 port which carries low voltage for the remote panel. That voltage is sufficient to feed the inhibit input on the acr. So whenever the charger is powered from shore the acrs are disabled.
Click to expand...

Interesting could you explain? My ACR's now are not disabled when the charger is powered from shore power. ACR green lights are on when charger is on.
 
My charger has a remote option that plugs in via a rj11 connector. One of the leads carries supply voltage of 12v to the remote. I tapped into that, ran a wire to the acr inhibit input via an optocoupler to isolate the system. But any 12v voltage powered of the shore power will do as input to the inhibit.

Relays, can be affected by marine environment or vibration and are just so last century. Inhibit of the acr should have built in by the factory while on shore power if they put n a multi bank charger.
 
Ok you are using the optocoupler to replace the relay. A relay could also be powered off the remote circuit. That is a good idea using the remote circuit. I agree about the dependability of the relay is adequate but marginal. Unfortunately we use and rely on them in the marine industry all the time. The Volvo engine has many of it's systems powered by 12V relays, starting at the dash switch, fuel pump, starter....

The more research I have done on this subject it may be all for nothing. The link I posted is very informative and points out a few areas that Fluid Motion could improve in their installation. I found this statement posted below contradicts the theory of isolating the ACR's while using the 3 bank charger.

Myth & Lore #10- “With a smart battery charger you must wire an ACR disable switch into the negative lead of the ACR”

This one can be a bit confusing but all boils down to what is actually inside a “smart-charger“. If your smart charger actually has multiple voltage regulators and multiple power supplies inside it, then a switch in the negative lead can allow the charger to charge each bank with its own fully independent charge profile. The catch here, and why this is MOSTLY FALSE, is because finding a smart charger with two or three fully independent chargers inside one box is about as likely as Hillary Clinton switching parties and becoming a Republican. Follow me for a moment.. (The article proceeds by explaining the charger outputs.)

I'm going to see if this is true to the Promariner.
 
Well I actually went thru the trouble to graph the voltage output on each charge leg while the acr was disabled and it showed different voltages during the charge cycles for each bank. That result prompted me to make this a permanent feature on my batteries to disable ACRs while on shore power
 
Seems to me,the easiest solution would be to install a charge bus. Connect all house batteries, (and thruster battery), the switch leads, the solar charge lead, the inverter, and the ACR (engine battery) and a single adequate charger lead. Yanmar engines would also connect the alternator to the same bus. Volvo owners would charge thru the engine battery. If one wants a separate thruster battery,add a 2nd ACR to the bus and connect to thruster battery. This would eliminate the 3 bank chargers and relays.
 
Of course a single charge are works great. After all it’s been used in cars for a long time. My truck with two batteries does it. However, this assumes same type of batteries. Our boats do not have the same type batteries and require a different charge treatment based on state of charge. An engineer friend of mine once stated, batteries don’t die they usually get murdered

If you just have $100 in per battery perhaps I wouldn’t care. But when your batteries are around $4-500 perhaps one uses proper charge regimens
 
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