Questions regarding bottom painting

[msu1966]

Recently bought 2013 R 27 that has lived most if not all it's life in freshwater. I plan to be in the Gulf Coast Jan. - March, 2022 and to be at anchor for approximately 75% of the time. I believe that the existing bottom paint is the 'non-ablative type. Since I have never cruised in saltwater, I am not familiar with the issues that saltwater does to the bottom. These are my concerns:
1. I assume that the existing paint will not protect the bottom from barnacles attaching to the bottom during the 3 months, correct?
2. If #1 is correct what kind/brand of paint should be used for cruising in both salt and fresh water?
3. What is a fair price to prep and paint the bottom with the appropriate paint by a professional marine painter?

Thanks,
Ken

 

[tranmkp]

When in Texas - I always used Trinidad SR


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[BB marine]

I had really good luck with Vivid Pettit bottom paint. We did the same as you. Lake Michigan boating then 6 months panhandle to south Florida . I did have the boat lifted once to store on land for the Christmas holidays. We launched at Kentucky lake in August and cruised to the Panhandle. We had the boat lifted the last week of November and set on the trailer. I scheduled a bottom wash but when the boat was lifted there was no need to pressure wash it the bottom was clean. We then launched the 3rd week of January cruised to Marthon Key. The month of March the boat was in the marina all but three days because it was windy and rough in the Bay and Ocean. The first week of April we cruised up the east coast to Stuart FL. Then headed across lake Okeechobee back to Ft Myer. I had the boat lifted there third week of April. I thought for sure we would need a good bottom cleaning. When the boat was lifted the fork truck operator told me it is a waste of time spraying your bottom it is spotless. He then set the boat on the trailer.

Before painting the bottom try to find out what paint is applied. Not all bottom painted can be applied over other paints. If you don't know what is on the bottom I would recommend sanding it down to the Gel and starting over. If you do that you can apply what ever paint you want.

If you do sand the old paint off. I would recommend putting a couple of coats of epoxy barrier coats on then apply the bottom paint to the barrier coat. The paint adhesion will be much better. If you use Vivid use a 3/16 nap roller and apply two coats thin. It will give a smooth finish and marine growth will be minimal if any.

 

[knotflying]

As Brian stated, Pettit vivid worked well for me. Bottom painting cost can vary by quite a bit. I have paid as much as $1,200 to as little as $750. The cost for the paint is about $320 per gallon. You should be able to just get by with one gallon. Since you have been in fresh water you may want to replace your anodes before going into salt water and vice versa.

 

[msu1966]

Can anyone recommend a bottom painter in the Pensacola area. Since the only quote I have is $ 1,800 which is considerably higher than knotflying's prices at $ 750 to $ 1,200. My bottom currently has the 'hard type' of bottom paint, not the ablative type.

 

[Capt’nKarl]

Ken, did your quote for $1800 include paint and 2 coats? I would like to see opinions on whether the hard bottom paint would work ok in saltwater with water temperatures in the 60’s F.
Capt’nKarl

 

[trailertrawlerkismet]

I e recently gotten quotes for bottom painting our R25OB, which has not been done yet. Prices, including paint n prep…all in range from $2200 to $3200. I did not have the time when we picked the boat up so we (me) are doing a DIY job in Florida. As a comparison the cost to pick from the trailer, all material, renting yard space, etc will be about $950.00.

Jim F

 

[baz]

Jim: Do not forget the effort, time and cost for preparing the factory hull's finish prior to applying the bottom paint. The quality of the prep work is paramount for a long lasting bottom paint job.

I had bottom paint done one year and the painters applied some form of chemical etching to the fresh factory hull finish prior to paint. The 'etching' was a total failure as after 2 yrs the bottom paint simply peeled off like peel from an orange... absolutely useless.

What have others done to a factory fresh hull surface prior to applying their bottom paint ??????

 

[knotflying]

Can anyone recommend a bottom painter in the Pensacola area. Since the only quote I have is $ 1,800 which is considerably higher than knotflying's prices at $ 750 to $ 1,200. My bottom currently has the 'hard type' of bottom paint, not the ablative type.

Keep in mind that boating prices have gone up considerably in the last two years so $1,800 may not be too bad a price. You can apply an ablative over a hard type bottom paint, but not the opposite. The Petit Vivid is Ideal for boats that are trailered and out of the water at times. A good cleaning and sanding is always a recommended way to start, regardless of product being applied.

 

[marob]

We had our new boat done as recommended by the dealer in Port Alberni BC and it cost $2800.00 CND.

 

[FlyMeAway]

FWIW, in every area there is usually a halfway decent yard or two that publicly publishes a bottom paint package and price. That's usually a good benchmark to use for your area (or nationwide, for that matter).

In the PNW, for example, Marine Servicenter publishes a rate for bottom painting at their Anacortes yard: https://marinesc.com/service-storage/yard-rates/

They are $35/foot up to 37' feet. Includes: haul out, pressure wash, blocking, basic prep to apply one full coat of anti-foulant with two coats at waterline and leading edges, sling and launch. There will be a surcharge for extra prep work required. Package includes $250/per gallon value of paint. Up charges for surpassing this dollar amount apply accordingly.

Now you have a good baseline against which to judge other quotes 🙂

 

[tranmkp]

When I raced sailboats - I had Vivid sprayed on - it’s good stuff but a little soft which is good SB d bad - I used white on the bottom as it’s better for the diver - when I hauled and pressure washed - ouch - I would see a lot of it washed away

When I stopped racing - The Trinidad seemed to last for years


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[Automaticman865]

also want to mention if you are removing all the existing paint and starting over, whatever the number of coats you use for bottom paint make the first one is a different color than the finish coats. You'll be able to know definitively when its time to repaint when the different color shows up.

Stuart

 

[BB marine]

When you are getting quotes for a bottom job make sure you are comparing apples to apples. Many facilities quote paint the bottom as meaning, clean, light sanding scuff and paint. Other quotes include sanding the complete bottom to remove old paint, solvent wash to insure a good clean surface to paint and two coats of paint applied. The more expensive and complete quotes are , Removal of old paint, sanded to the gelcoat, epoxy barrier coat applied in a 2 to 3 step application and the bottom paint applied to the barrier coat during the curing process to insure a good bond of bottom paint to the barrier coat and barrier coat to the gel coat.

On a new boat hull or used boat hull I would aways recommend the complete application. It is pricey. When I purchased my C26 in 2016 I was given quotes between 4K and 5K for this application. Pricey!!! I decided to do it myself.


I rented Yardarms blocking and boat stands for a week (200.00) The marina let me put the boat in their storage building for a week for no cost. It was not storage season (September in Midwest) I made up a dust collector using a 5 gallon bucket and a lid with cyclone dust collector mounted to it and a five gallon wet vac. I have a Makita orbital sander and connected a vacuum hose to it and away I went. First step lift the boat off the trailer using the rented Yardarms and set the boat on stands and blocking. was Next, de-wax the hull, then sand with 80 grit sanding disks. I'm OLD so this took me about 10 hours. The Cutwater bottom has a lot of curves, a hull step, tunnel and lifting strakes which required some detailed sanding. After the sanding was completed I washed the bottom with soap and water, another wipe down of solvent to de-wax and I was ready to paint ( day 1 and 2). 2 gallons of Pettit barrier coat epoxy. I paid around 100.00 a gallon. (200.00) I applied 3 coats . I applied 2 coats on (day 3) 1 more coat the next day in the morning and the first coat of Vivid (black) (300.00 gallon + 1 quart 90.00 = 390.00) (Day 4) The next day second coat of Vivid was applied and a 3rd coat was applied from the boot line to the chine. Basically the water line where most of the slime appears while in the water. (Day 5 ). (Day 6) I lifted the boat off the stands using the Yardarms and set the boat on the trailer the project was completed. (Day 7) quick coat of wax on the hull and the boat was ready for our next trip to the water. Total cost supplies Pettit de-waxing solvents, paint thinner for the barrier epoxy, thinner for the Vivid paint, 3/16 solvent resistant paint rollers, masking tape, sanding disks around 100.00, Paint barrier and Vivid 590.00, 200.00 rental of Yardarms and stands for a week. Total 890.00 materials and equipment. I had about 30 hours of actual work for this job it was done over a 6 day period but not full days during the painting applications. A marine repair facility charging 100.00 per hour this would be 3000.00 in labor. $4K is not out of line if you are paying to have it done.

Why did I explain this? When getting quotes don't look for the cheapest quote. Ask, what is included. Know what the application includes. Sometimes it is better to spend a little more money getting a good job done that will last longer and make future applications of bottom paint better.

My first application was done September 2016. I recoated in May 2020 ( sanding with 80 grit paper until I could see a faint color of the gray barrier coat. I washed the bottom with soap and water after sanding and applied 2 more coats of Vivid. I could have easily gone another year but we were going to do a 6 month trip 2020/2021. The 2020 application took me 2 days of sanding and prep because I am OLD. 1 day to apply 2 coats of bottom paint. 590.00 for paint 50.00 for supplies 20 hours.
A shop would be 2000.00 labor and 640.00 materials. 2500.00 to 2800.00 would not be out of line to have the job done right.

Cheaper is not always better!!

When I raced sailboats - I had Vivid sprayed on - it’s good stuff but a little soft which is good SB d bad - I used white on the bottom as it’s better for the diver - when I hauled and pressure washed - ouch - I would see a lot of it washed away

When I stopped racing - The Trinidad seemed to last for years


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The issue with Vivid is it is a hard ablative. It is ablative. It works by using the boat. I believe it works better on power boats. Sailboats that are raced have divers cleaning the bottoms regularly. Some bottom paints are better for sailboats because they have a harder finish and will hold up better for frequent bottom cleaning by divers. Pettit recommends no bottom cleaning the first 6 months after application and every 3 months after that. I never cleaned the bottom 3 months in the water in Florida and the bottom was spotless when I hauled it. I worked at a yard in New England that was 90 % sail boats and 50% of those raced in clubs weekly. Some of theses folks had their bottoms scrubbed every other week. The Vivid would not be a good application for that.

 

[FlyMeAway]

I decided to do it myself.

If you decide to do this, please check with local regulations. There are places where you could be fined tens of thousands of dollars for not doing it properly. In WA, I don't believe there are any yards that will let you DIY bottom paint (and here many yards only do bottom painting indoors now). Re: DIY I think this is also be true in CT (or, at least, my dad couldn't find a yard that would let him paint his own boat, and that was years ago). Many residential codes prohibit activities related to "hazardous waste" without appropriate permits, so even if you're doing it on a trailer in your driveway you might be running... afoul of the law. If a neighbor complains you get to be responsible for cleanup. That's a bill that could cost as much as your boat.

Make no mistake, bottom paint (including the paint itself and any dust/chips from prepping prior paint) is hazardous waste. Environmental regs often carry substantial penalties, though very state dependent. Don't begin the project without researching our local regs.

 

[BB marine]

I decided to do it myself.

If you decide to do this, please check with local regulations. There are places where you could be fined tens of thousands of dollars for not doing it properly. In WA, I don't believe there are any yards that will let you DIY bottom paint (and here many yards only do bottom painting indoors now). Re: DIY I think this is also be true in CT (or, at least, my dad couldn't find a yard that would let him paint his own boat, and that was years ago). Many residential codes prohibit activities related to "hazardous waste" without appropriate permits, so even if you're doing it on a trailer in your driveway you might be running... afoul of the law. If a neighbor complains you get to be responsible for cleanup. That's a bill that could cost as much as your boat.

Make no mistake, bottom paint (including the paint itself and any dust/chips from prepping prior paint) is hazardous waste. Environmental regs often carry substantial penalties, though very state dependent. Don't begin the project without researching our local regs.

Good point. In my case I did do it in a building at a marina that required me to capture all paint dust to maintain their environmental requirements.


"

rented Yardarms blocking and boat stands for a week (200.00) The marina let me put the boat in their storage building for a week for no cost. It was not storage season (September in Midwest) I made up a dust collector using a 5 gallon bucket and a lid with cyclone dust collector mounted to it and a five gallon wet vac. I have a Makita orbital sander and connected a vacuum hose to it and away I went

It can be done by a DIY owner that maintains the requirements of Clean Harbors. Many facilities will not allow it because they don't want to police the yard. I don't blame them. I have seen boat owners sand and grind bottoms and the ground is the color of the bottom paint. If you do it right you stay clean and the environment does too.

I wasn't really promoting DIY. I was trying to explain and justify the cost of a good job.