R-21 EC Fuel Vent Issue

Status
Not open for further replies.
R

rt11002003

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
720
Fluid Motion Model
C-24 C SE
Hull Identification Number
FMLT2113H314
Vessel Name
Loaf'N
Andrew,

I think you might have missed an inquiry of mine.

My fuel vent line has two kinks making fueling a problem. I read the previous emails on this subject and saw the recommendation concerning the fuel/air separator solution. That solution looks like overkill on the R-21, we don't have a lot of space and surfaces for mounting it.

I'm suggesting using a 20+ inch long line and form a loop that extends around 8 inches above the tank. That should eliminate kinks and should be high enough to prevent sloshing fuel from exiting the tank and flowing out the vent.

What do you folks think?

Gene
 
The best way I've found to prevent fuel sloshing out of the vent is a very simple one. I've read previous posts suggesting aftermarket recovery devices and your thoughts on the vent hose, they all seem like overkill. Get yourself an oil sporbent pad, not a pillow or a sock, make sure it is hydrophobic (absorbs no water only petroleum based liquids) and cut about a 4x4 square. Roll it and wedge it between the vent and the railing bracket. It will stay there, be almost invisible and catch all fuel without blocking the vent itself. I change mine once or twice a year and in the unlikely chance it does become saturated wring it out and it will continue to keep fuel from spreading across your stern. Cost about 50 cents, no mess, priceless.
 
Robm,

Thanks for suggestion. That will take care of the seepage of fuel and it's simple and easy. But I will still have the two kinks in the vent line which makes refueling a struggle with fuel burping back, etc. I was able to put almost a 100 gallons of fuel in our Albin in the amount of time it takes to get 10 to 15 gallons in the R-21.

I guess I'll put the looped line in and then use your suggestion if I continue to have seepage.

Gene
 
The only issue I can see with adding a looped line is to make sure the vent can drain fuel back into the tank. If not it acts as a peatrap and spurts out fuel when filling. Otherwise I think that will work fine.
 
Peatrap?? :? Would a "peatrap" result if there was a second loop below the outlet?

I'm thinking of a vent line with a single over head loop where any fuel/spray entering the line would go up toward the top of the loop, any spray/fuel going over the top of the loop would have a vertical exit to the outlet. I'm hoping a loop 8 inches above the top of the tank will stop the spray/fuel from going all the way thru the loop and out the inlet.

Gene
 
I don't know about your R-21, but mine has a space of about 1 to 2 inches above the tank vent fitting and the overflow fitting. None of the proposed "fixes" seem practical to me. I've been in search of an answer to this one since taking delivery of our boat.
Alex, "Kamalani"
 
Alex,

I'm still thinking about the problem, "measure twice, cut once". I think it might be possible to run a vent line up into the cavity just forward of the fuel tank and then back to the outlet fitting. If so, I think I can form a vent loop in that cavity that is about eight inches above the tank top. To prevent a loop at the bottom of the vent line, which would capture fuel/spray, it will have to attach to the outlet fitting tube from the front horizonally, or maybe 5 to 10 degrees above. That means the vent outlet fitting tube will have be shifted 90 degrees (or more) forward resulting in the fitting holes facing forward instead of down. I think I've seen outlet fittings that have an adjustable hose tube which would avoid that issue.

I had intended to do some measuring today, but was diverted by air conditioning problems at home.

I'll let you and the other Tugnuts know how things work out. If successful, I'll try and post photos.

Gene
 
I have the final fix for all of the fuel issues related to the tank used in the construction of the R-21 EC. I cut out the stock tank and through the 3D drafting skills of my girl friend had a new tank laser cut out of 1/8 inch 5052 aluminum. The tank was constructed from only two pieces to reduce the amount of welds. The tank is baffled twice and holds a gallon more fuel. I also added a racor fuel water seperator to combat any possible water due to condensation. My fuel gauge no longer bounces and there is NO fuel coming from the vent. I also re-routed the fill and I now fill directly into the tank instead of through a bent hose. I can fill as fast as the nozzle will flow. A big job but well worth the time and money. I've posted several pictures to show the steps.
 
Shaun,

Very nice solution to the problems. Looks expensive.

I feel for the price of a new R-21 EC, Ranger could have done a better job.

Gene
 
I completely agree with you about ranger needing to do a better job with the tank. In their defense, they buy the tanks from a tank manufacturer and I don’t think the tanks are made to lie across the transom of a boat. I had many issues with the old tank mostly due to the sloshing of fuel inside the tank. I fought with it for almost three years. The fuel comes out the vent when you are under way because when the boat rolls the fuel is able to pick up speed and hit the vent side forcing fuel to squirt out the vent hole. Filling is difficult because of the tight bend in the fill hose and deck fitting. The fuel gauge bounces severely because without baffles the fuel moves so much causing the sending unit to move up and down. The new tank wasn't too expensive for couple reasons, 1 my girlfriend works at an off road race car manufacturer so we had access to all the facilities, 2 her coworker and friend is a master welder and fabricator (I bought the beer). So I just paid for materials. Total cost was roughly $500 and again worth every penny.
 
YIKES! --- I commend you for all that ingenuity, but, I am going to keep the faith that between Andrew and my dealers who he referred me to for this, something will be worked out. It really is a nasty little problem. Alex, "Kamalani"
 
Shaun,

After thinking about this fuel tank/venting/refueling situation I reached the same conclusion you have. The lack of baffles and restricted lines are the problems.

My real concern is that there may not be a practical solution, or even any solution, other one like yours, replace the tank. I'm beginning to doubt that even an 8 inch high loop will keep the fuel in the tank. And, with force of the fuel sloshing, I'm not sure an air/fuel separator (if I could find mounting space) will work.

As mentioned in another of my posts, I'm also concerned about the fuel tank mounting.

I haven't checked the inlet filler tube yet, I should have. May do that later today, I generally stay away from the boat on the weekends in the summer, too many inconsiderate people.

If I run into a fuel related violation of one of the initials (DNR, USCG, Corps, etc.) agencies' regulations because of this I'm going to be upset.

Gene
 
😀 Gene - What is the latest re this issue ??? I am interested in the details as I need to deal with this on my 1993 R21. She currently has a 13 gal. metal tank with no baffles, a direct fill cap on the tank with that classic screw type vent which you have to open each time you use the boat and suffer through the smell and fuel wetness if motoring in chop or with a full tank. Not Good!! Joe
 
Joe,

After I replaced the entire original vent line system AND the filler fitting, I haven't had further problems with fuel seepage/leakage from the vent and filler. If I were to do that job again, I'd remove the fuel tank and even then some of the work would be in very close quarters . I cut up several pairs of rubber gloves (and my hands) on sharp objects in tight spaces.

The new vent system (I think Jeff sent it to me.) consisted of a 90 degree tank fitting, a long piece of hose and a new exterior vent fitting. I replaced the exterior vent fitting, the one he supplied, with one that allowed the pipe, where the hose attached, to rotate. The tank fitting (90 degrees) suppressed the flow of surging fuel (a result of having no tank baffles), the longer vent hose further slowed the fuel and in conjunction with the adjustable exterior vent allowed me to increase the height of the vent well above the tank by moving it to the starboard side of the boat.

I was also provided with a new filler fitting that is flush mounted and doesn't leak when the pressure builds up in the tank due to sloshing fuel.

The end results are no more fuel seepage/leakage, aft seat cushions that are fuel stained (I haven't bothered Ranger about that.) and less than a perfect fit of the new fuel filler fitting (The bolt holes didn't align and one hole protrudes from under the fitting.).

Gene
 
😀 Pretty creative Gene!! Since necessity is the Mother of invention let me share another possible approach for those who have the fuel tank in the middle of the cockpit instead of at the transom. As we discussed, the problem in my case is that you can't run a separate vent line to the exterior without forming a loop. IE - exiting the tank, dropping down the side of the tank, under the flooring, and up the inside of the hull to the exterior vent, which forms the fatal P-trap effect. I have a metal tank, with a flush mount filler cap and screw vent. I decided do away with the flush mount cap, and extend the filler neck by using one from an automobile. First I went to the salvage yard and found a filler neck from a late model pickup. All the late models have a spring loaded flap which the pump nozzle opens when fueling your car. This flap helpes to stop any fuel from reaching the filler cap since there is about a 1.5 inch gap between them. The flap closes when the pump nozzle is removed. I found a unit that also had a plastic tube inside the metal tube and prevents the fuel from spraying back while filling. Contrary to what the yard man told me, the caps are vented. actually it is quite a sophisticated vent allowing both pressure caused by filling and temperature increase, and vacuum or negative pressure caused by temp. drop and fuel consumption, to neutralize keeping the tank sides relaxed. I am thinking that since this two way vent is above the filler flap it might just do the trick. I had about 5.5 inches clearance between the top of the tank and the bottom of the engine cover. I cut the filler neck so that the top of the automotive gas cap, the ratchet type, is 1/2 in. below the cover, using as much height as possible. After carefully cutting the fuel neck to the proper length I attached it to the original opening of the tank by using PC.7. JB-Weld would also work. Both are fuel resistant and plenty strong enough for the job and allow mounting without welding heat. It's also easy to do providing all parts are carefully preped. Both surfaces must be carefully cleaned first and then roughed giving "Tooth" for maximum adhesion. Of course all this requires removal of the tank however this is a good thing as you can now check the interior and clean if necessary. It might just work !!?? Will keep you posted. Joe
Joe and Rose
R21 "TUG-ALONG"Boatman

Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:34 am
City: Highland Haven
State/Province: TX
Ranger Model: R-21 Tug
Vessel Name: TUG-ALONG
Private message Top
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Display
 
Interesting 😎

Gene
 
Joe,

Since you went to all of the trouble to remove the metal tank anyway, I would have taken the opportunity to replace the tank with one of these http://shop.easternmarine.com/index.cfm ... goryID=484

The vent system on these poly tanks is very effective and leak free. Plus you gain that advantage of reducing the weight of the tank and reducing the chances for biological growth within the tank which can be a problem with metal tanks.

As the vent issue in your case doesn't really relate to the current vent issues with the EC's, might I suggest further updates about your situation be posted in a new thread.

Eric
 
😀 Looks like I am posting to myself!! Anyway, good news!! The tank modification has worked well. Filled it to the brim and no weeping or sloshing of fuel and no pressure build up in the tank... either negative or positive pressure. What a difference it makes to have no diesel dampness in the engine compartment. And the best of all is that it was a cheap and easy fix that anyone can do, even if you have a plastic tank. Feel free to call me @ 830-220-0020 if you have any questions. Joe
 
😀 Sorry for the over sight Eric. Do all 21ec's have the fuel tank in the rear?? If not, my post may apply to some of the early EC's. Being a nuby to the Ranger Tug world I have a lot to learn. Joe
 
Glad to hear you devised a solution. 😀

Gene
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

  • Tugnuts.com is the community hub for Ranger Tug, Cutwater, and Solara owners. Since its inception in 2008, the Tugnuts forum has grown into an active and thriving community of more than 9,000 members. It serves as both a meeting place for the best boating community online, and an invaluable archive of information.

  • User menu
Back
Top