R-21EC Bilge/Drainage Questions

[Boris the Tug]

Heads up I'm a total newbie and plan on posting all my questions here on Tugnuts as I ramp up with my beloved tug. I see posts getting a lot of views daily so I know you pros are out there. I appreciate all of you!

I like checking out all the cool mods but want to stay focused on the basics first. First, I'd like to know more about my bilge pump and drainage.

1. There are two drains on the deck, port and starboard of the bilge. Do these lead to the same place as the bilge?

2. I cleaned her on day 2 and then cleaned her again. I pulled a bunch of pine needles (bought in Oregon) out of the cabin door rails and assuming if there are that many, then they are in the drains as well. How should I best clean debris from the drains?

3. During my purchase inspection, they stated the bilge pump had a fair amount of dirt in it. What's the best way to clean out the bilge?

4. From what I understand, if it rains in my boat while docked, the bilge will activate from the float. I assume I need the main battery switch 'on' for this. Is that right? Do I also need shore power for the auto bilge to kick in? I've been trying to test this but haven't gotten it to kick in yet.

Thanks!!

 

[lone ranger]

The bilge pump should still operate with the battery switch off,change out the strainers for ones that can easily be removed for cleaning( I used some cheap sink strainers if found in a hardware store).keep your bilge clean of debris and you'll be fine.

 

[LAKERtoo]

.. there should be 2 fused power lines for the bilge .. one goes to the manual switch in the wheel house and one goes directly to the battery which is the auto feature .. you might check the fuse is not blown or cracked and pack spares .. if the boat is still on the trailer, pull the bilge plug, and give things a spray down with bilge cleaner and rinse well .. you might use warm water and detergent ... you might have to climb under and clear the bilge plug a few times if you have a lot of debris in there .. you could also use a wet/dry vacuum in the bilge ..

 

[SGIDAVE]

Heads up I'm a total newbie and plan on posting all my questions here on Tugnuts as I ramp up with my beloved tug. I see posts getting a lot of views daily so I know you pros are out there. I appreciate all of you!

I like checking out all the cool mods but want to stay focused on the basics first. First, I'd like to know more about my bilge pump and drainage.

1. There are two drains on the deck, port and starboard of the bilge. Do these lead to the same place as the bilge?

2. I cleaned her on day 2 and then cleaned her again. I pulled a bunch of pine needles (bought in Oregon) out of the cabin door rails and assuming if there are that many, then they are in the drains as well. How should I best clean debris from the drains?

3. During my purchase inspection, they stated the bilge pump had a fair amount of dirt in it. What's the best way to clean out the bilge?

4. From what I understand, if it rains in my boat while docked, the bilge will activate from the float. I assume I need the main battery switch 'on' for this. Is that right? Do I also need shore power for the auto bilge to kick in? I've been trying to test this but haven't gotten it to kick in yet.

Thanks!!

Hello Boris,

The R21 is a great boat. You will have a lot of fun with it.

to address your questions:
1. YES the two deck drains toward the stern empty into the bilge. ALSO, open the hatch over the steering gear and sponge out the water that likes to accumulate in the depression where the rudder goes through the hull.

2. and 3. Clean the bilge areas with your hands or some type of grasper. If you see debris under the deck grates, unscrew those and pull out whatever junk you can. As others have said, keeping the bilge (where the bilge pump lives) clean will help ensure the bilge pump and it's float switch operate properly.

4. The 'standard' way to wire a bilge pump is to connect it directly to the POS terminal on the battery or a POS bus bar such that it is ALWAYS powered even when the battery switches are OFF. You need to trace the wire (look for a BROWN wire) from the battery supply to the bilge pump itself to ensure this is the case AND so that you will know where the FUSE is located (usually within 7 inches of the battery or bus bar connection). When your bilge pump fails to come on 'automatically,' it is this fuse that should be the first thing you check. And since these fuses blow at 'bad' times, it will be helpful if you know how to get to it quickly.
So, NO you shouldn't need to have your battery switch on for the bilge pump to run on automatic mode (but YOU must double check this). And NO you don't need to be connected to shore power for the bilge pump to run.
You DO want your bilge pump connected to the 'best' battery (whether 'house' or 'start'), so it will have the most 'juice' to keep the bilges empty in your absence.

You have ask GOOD questions! Your bilge pump is not just a convenience but also a critical piece of emergency equipment. Your own life as well as the lives of your passengers may depend on your understanding it's operation and the ability to quickly troubleshoot it.

Fair Winds,

dave

 

[RSC]

As others have said...the best way to really clean the bilge is to pull the drain plug from the k eelwhile out of the water. Really rinse the bilge well with bilge cleaner and lots of water.I would suggest also rinsing the bilge with a hose sprayed back toward the drain from the cover over the engine water cooling seacock. Blasting a hose here can dislodge crud and old oil drippings that may be under the engine.

The suggestion of placing a cheap stainless steel sink drain strainer under the two cockpit drain covers really helps also. Stuff just seems to find its way into the bilge through those covers. These screens should be checked regularly so as not to accumulate crud that will impeed the rapid draining of the cockpit.

Also..check the operation of the bilge pump regularly to make sure it starts and stops OK by itself. Depending on the type of bilge pump you have there can be sticking floats or or other issues that will drain your battery while away leaving your boat to fill with water. My boat is on a covered boat lift but heavy storms with blowing wind and possibly a sticky bilge float managed to kill my battery and allowed the boat to accumulate enough water to flood the cabin floor. That event happened while I was away for over a month during the rainy season. I now have two bilge pumps installed running off separate batteries and a small solar charger. If I am going to be away for a longer period, I remove the bilge plug and install a oneway valve bilge plug. If you do remove the plug, place a piece of surveyors day glow tape somewhere very visible to remind you to replace the plug.

 

[RonGinger]

I had a 2001 R21 for a few years, now have a 2008 21EC. My only disappointment with the boat is that the cockpit scuppers drain into the bilge, not overboard. I understand the design issues of keeping the cockpit deep, but I really think thats a weakness of the boat.

Every fall at haul out I take the boat to a car wash with a high pressure washer. I open any bilge covers and blast inside as deep as I can reach, with the keel plug removed of course. I have owned wood boats for more than 50 years and believe me nothing is more important than a clean bilge.

My new boat has the dumbest bilge pump ever invented. It does not have a float, it auto activates about every 2 minutes and runs for 2 or 3 seconds to see if water is flowing. Whatever genius invented that has never spent a night aboard a boat. I hate to replace a good pump but I may do it. I have verified with a good marine store that the pump is working as designed, it is not faulty.

I just spent some time trying to get my macerator pump to work. After lots of tests I finally found a web site with a document and found the big secret is to hold the pump run button for 3-5 seconds, then it will run. Thats a feature to prevent accidental running of the pump.

I am enjoying all the learning as I get to know this new boat. If it would just warm up enough to go for a long ride- so far all I have been able to do is short loops around the harbor.

 

[Boris the Tug]

This is all excellent information!

I found the brown positive wire from battery to bilge. Flat 3 amp fuse looks good. The dealer put in one new battery but the bilge was hooked up to the old battery...so thanks SGI... I'll swap that connection to the new battery. My 'Piece of mind' IQ just went up a few points so thanks for all the details! There is another positive line from battery to house with a fuse (cylinder). Is that the second manual bilge line Laker mentioned? Does that just protect bilge or does it protect the whole panel? I would think it was an ignition/starter fuse but I have no idea. Learning though

I like the sink strainer idea, I'll check that out for the drains and check that they're all clear. I want to remove the drain covers but apparently I have every square bit possible except the size it needs.

In the bilge area, there's a bunch of leaves and crap back up in there so I'll break out the Wet-vac and sponge. Man, I should cleaned that out on day 1! I like the trees in Oregon but didn't want to bring any of them back with me.

RSC, you bring up some great tips. She'll sit in my slip year round and the trailer is stored at buddies a few hours away. So for now I'll do all I can in the water and keep your other tips on the back burner for when I pull her out next time. I'd love to get a hydro hoist but a slip canopy is first on my list. The sun gets brutal here but I'm mostly getting tired of cleaning bird **** off the deck! Definitely will blast the water through like you said. And maybe look for biodegradable bilge cleaners safe for use in water. Curious can the float be triggered by hand or is it internal to the pump?

Ron, I have a 2008 as well. Having moving parts move when they don't need to DOES sound ridiculous! How did you discover this? Do you know the make/model of your pump? Wondering if I have the same one. As for the macerater, that's for my next post. I don't dare take a **** on my tug until then, hah! How long are your 'short trips around the harbor"? I did a six hour round trip and a four hour round trip my first two times out to a restaurant in Rio Vista (The Point) and then to Windmill Cove marina after that. Enjoying the journey more and more.

I'm just beginning to understand what you all mean when you say you love your tug more and more each day 🙂 thank you I really appreciate all the help!

 

[LAKERtoo]

.. if you are not sure which fuse is which .. disconnect one and throw a bucket of water in the bilge .. if it comes on, you know the one is still connected is the automatic, connected straight to the battery .. if not, reconnect the other fuse and the bilge pump should come on right away .. maybe label both for future reference .. on my 2005, the blade fuse is the wheel house manual switch, and the cylindrical fuse is the automatic, direct battery connection .. Rob

 

[RSC]

I forgot to mention in my post about the small stainless steel sink drain strainers...I bought mine at a flea market for $1 each. They may also have them at a dollar store. Anyway, they have a crimped-on stainless steel rim that I removed so that when the strainer is sandwiched under the drain cover against the fiberglas floor, the cover sits flatter and is not to raised. If I remember correctly, I may have had to do some slight trimming of the stainless mesh screen to the diameter of the cover.

You will really love that great boat...

 

[Boris the Tug]

Are your sink drains 2-1/2" drains?

I still can't get the drain covers off (still need smaller square bit) but I can see the cut-out in the fiberglass beneath and it measures 2-1/2".

I found these on Amazon. Thinking these could work and no trim to remove. They are .08" deep. Think these would work? A bit more $$ but I prefer the convienace.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000DZD1A...t=&hvlocphy=9031980&hvtargid=pla-303389953324

 

[RSC]

Those are the stainless steel drain strainers. I removed the crimped flange around the top so that the scupper cover wouldn't be raised so much off the deck and sit more flush. I would try some dollar stores.

 

[Boris the Tug]

ok I got the dollar store strainers. I see what you mean the screen comes out easily with a little 'tug'. Got those installed on the aft drains no problem. This seems like a great solution to keeping the bilge area cleaner! Curious though, aren't the screw holes going to strip out if I keep removing the screws to clean the drains? Afterall it's just fiberglass I'm screwing into. Also anyone ever build a custom screen for the 'bilge hatch' for crud that gets in that way?

Flushed out the bilge area from Seacock to bilge pump with a few buckets of water, hose, some degreasing, more water...then repeat several times. Scooped out most of the pine needles with my hands and towels. My Wetvac was not up for the task. When everything dries out I'll go back for more. Question, where does the cockpit drainage go? (ie under the toilet. Is that a drain?). From the seacock area, it doesn't look like it drains into the bilge area because it's lower than that and I don't see where it would lead in from. I assume it has to lead to the bilge because where else would it go?

Wired the bilge pump wires to the new battery. Bilge works great now! Tested it out with no shore power and battery switch off. Works as it's supposed to, whew! I also found her manual float switch trigger. I'm getting to know this girl 😉

Thanks so much for the tips!

 

[SGIDAVE]

Question, where does the cockpit drainage go? (ie under the toilet. Is that a drain?). From the seacock area, it doesn't look like it drains into the bilge area because it's lower than that and I don't see where it would lead in from. I assume it has to lead to the bilge because where else would it go?

Hello Boris,

The 21EC has a sort of 'box keel' which runs from the bow area forward of the pilot house all the way aft to the area where the plug and bilge pump are located. So, any water in that area will eventually drain aft to the bilge pump. Conversely, if the bilge water level gets high due to a failed bilge pump that water can roll forward when the boat goes down a wave.

There is a sort of 'bulk head' in the keel just forward of where you reach through the deck access to open/close the seacock for the engine raw water. This is not a water-tight bulk head...more like a piece of thin, rough-fitting fiberglass screwed to a cleat that WILL allow water to pass.

Ensure your high-bilge alarm is working.

/dave

 

[Stevan47]

Hi guys: The s/s mesh strainers for the two cockpit drains is a good idea. I actually never thought of this before. I will be getting some this week. Noting my 21 lives on a trailer in my driveway when not underway, I tend to receive pine needles, leaves, insects and other debris when it is windy and/or raining. I would also be interested to know if anyone has designed some type of custom mesh screen/strainer to install under the bilge hatch which gives access to the shaft and bilge pump compartment. A lot of debris collects around the edges of the hatch in the clearances and when you open the hatch it drops into the bilge. There is minimal clearance between the hatch base and the mating ledge so some type of very thin s/s or brass mesh might do the job. I would be interested if anyone has any ideas on this topic. Stevan.

 

[ranzivino]

I' struggling with getting my freshwater pump and my Fusion radio powered up Neither are staring. 21ec