R-23 wet weights on trailer and towing

[jagizzi]

Hi folks,

For those looking at the R-23 and planning for towing I thought that I would share the weights that I just got from the scale.

Boat and trailer, 70 gals fuel, no water or waste but loaded with our typical boating and living supplies

8020 lbs.
460 tongue weight

This is consistent with my back of the envelope calculations prior to purchase using RT number of 5000 lb dry boat weight.

5000 - boat
1800 - trailer
1200 - stuff (incl fuel)

Tongue weight was a little less than I was expecting as I had estimated 10% of boat and trailer.

Caluclations here:

Front axle Rear axle Trailer axles Total
Trk and Trlr 2980 3300 7560 13840
Trk 3120 2700 5820
Boat and trailer weight 8020 Trk and Trlr - Trk only

Boat and Tlr Trlr axles
Tongue weight 8020 7560 460 Boat and trlr - trlr axles

Let me know if something seems out of whack but I am pretty sure that the numbers add up within a reasonable margin of error. There was a 60# dog in the truck when weighed without the trailer because she saw me come home ;-) She throws the numbers off a little but not enough for me to worry about.

Additional information as I know folks are always talking about towing capacities on here. My 2015 F-150 has a towing capacity of 10,700# so this is within my comfort zone from a safety margin standpoint. GVWR is 7000# and again I am ok in that regard. The newer F-150's have significantly larger towing capacities than the older ones.

Just some numbers for those looking to make decisions. If someone sees something amiss I am sure they won't be shy about pointing it out ;-)

Jim

 

[scross]

Jim those numbers look reasonable to me.
I assume you have a tandem axle trailer. So 10% tounge weight target would be high. That’s a rule of thumb for single axle trailers, not tandem axles. Better rule of thumb for tandems is 6-8% of total loaded weight. That said, you’re still a bit light in tongue weight.
Given that your F150 has such a high towing capacity, you might want to add some extra weight forward in the boat to increase the tongue weight, even if it increases your total weight. Better solution would be to move the boat forward on the trailer or move the axles aft but that’s a major project! If your R23 is like our R25 Classic, the great water tank is pretty far forward. Perhaps adding some weight (water) there might help.

 

[jagizzi]

You are correct that this I with a tandem trailer.

The boat currently sits about 1 inch behind the bow roller. I have so far found it impossible to keep it tight against it when pulling it out of the water, that would help add tongue weight although not a lot. I even made sure it was pulled forward and tight prior to pulling it out but I. Guessing the steep ramp allowed it to settle a bit.

Is there a reason to want more weight on the tongue at this point? The boat is stable on the highway at all speeds but I am not experienced towing loads this large.

 

[scross]

Jim, in answer to your observations and questions.

The gap between the boat and trailer bow roller after recovery is normal. There's even YouTube videos of folks doing the "Ranger Tug Slide" to try to get the boat up tight against the bow roller.
It's at 5:42 into this video from Wefings Marine https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/v ... ction=view

EZ Loader trailers (page 13-14 of the owners manual) says tongue weights should be between 5-10% of gross loaded weight. In talking to several other boat trailer manufactures the consensus seems to be 6-8% as I mentioned before.

By having a low tongue weight, you face a serious problem of trailer fishtailing or trailer sway. See this video
https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/v ... ction=view

So, I'd recommend some way of adding or moving weight to the front of your boat to get at least another 40 to 100 pounds more tongue weight.

PS: One thing working in our favor to slightly reduce trailer sway is the huge aerodynamic drag our boats have. With that big of a "parachute" behind you at freeway speeds the tendency to have sway is slightly less than towing with a small aerodynamic drag boat or tent trailer.

 

[jagizzi]

Well, I have to figure out a use for the spaces under the berth anyway ;-) They are currently empty but the matress pad cover and berth cushions make access a bit of a PITA.

I want a spare anchor, that is easy. With 50' of chain I am halfway to more tongue weight. Add in a couple of packed bags and I am good.

I appreciate the feedback and discussions, thanks.

 

[jagizzi]

Holy Heck! I would never spike the brakes like that to get the boat forward on the trailer, yikes. That was quite a bang that would have had me concerned about the hull.

 

[Red Raven]

I do the tug slide every time to push the boat up snug. Sometimes it is even a bit more severe than the video! If it is not tight it won’t fit in my garage! I don’t think it hurts the hull since the bunks are wet. May rub a bit of bottom paint off over time though.

The reason for this is because the boat is level when on the water but the trailer is sloped at 10 to 12 percent. When driven or floated onto the trailer the boat is only on the trailer on the front bunks. When the trailer and boat pull out of the water the boat settles back onto the rear bunks. This causes the bow to rise an lift off the roller. The amount depends on the slope of the ramp. Low slope equals less bow lift as you pull out of the water. Low slope causes other problems with launching so the tug slide is actually my preferred choice!

 

[S. Todd]

If you spray the bunks with liquid rollers it does not take much brake action to get the "ranger slide" to gently snug the boat up to the front bow stop where our 25SC will never get by winching it when it is on the ramp.

 

[scross]

We have liquid rollers spray for the window+screen sticking problem but have not used it on out trailer for “the slide”. Our trailer has a full length high density neoprene/plywood/aluminum keel support that I don’t think even liquid rollers would help with a slide.
We have towed our R25 Classic about 4,000 miles in 3 years with no hint of sway ever at tongue weights of 5.5% to 7%. This includes towing in heavy rain, strong crosswinds and down 6% grades. We are now regularly towing at 6-7% tongue weight by moving weight forward in the boat. We check our weights several times a year on truck scales.
I use a digital level to ensure the trailer frame is level to the ground every time we tow any distance so that the weight not on the tongue is evenly distributed to both axles. I am very I tune for any hint of sway which I have experienced in the past towing other trailers.
If you can do the slide with liquid rollers sprayed on the bunks I think it’s a good plan. The smallest applied brake amount to get the boat to slide forward against the trailer bow roller is obviously the best.
If you have a steel frame trailer (mine is Alu) I’d also recommend using a weight distribution hitch and anti-sway devices.
In summary, see what you can do to “tug slide” and/or move weight forward in the boat to get your tongue weight close to 7%. Good luck!

 

[zekeandboone]

Holy Heck! I would never spike the brakes like that to get the boat forward on the trailer, yikes. That was quite a bang that would have had me concerned about the hull.

Jim... I do the Ranger "bump" or "slide" every time.
Where did you go to get weighed?
Lunch soon?

 

[jagizzi]

Thanks folks, all good information.

Red Raven, thanks for the explanation, it was drivinge crazy as I couldn't see why the bow was moving back, that makes perfect sense.

Steve, I went through the Ridgefield scales. Lunch anytime.

 

[Nmontagno]

I have a 2011 Ram 1500 4x4 and I just purchased an R23. Anyone else have some thing similar to this set up? Anything I should expect while towing or maneuvering. The Ram specs says that towing capacity is 10,450 lbs.

I figure the R23 on the trailer and fully loaded w/equipment might be pushing close to 8000 lbs. The truck would probably be hauling and additional 700-800 lbs of personal, gear, fuel, etc.

Any information is appreciated.

 

[PanaSeaAh]

One more reason to own a Ranger Tug:
I have been towing something that floats since 1974. I have always been conscientious about the 8 to 10% tongue weight, and have only had a problem once. Several boats ago I was towing a 22 foot cuddy cabin with a V-8 in it on an EZ Loader. About 5200 lbs. dry, as I recall. I had the tongue weight right at 10% and had never had a problem until the day I passed a semi on the expressway and when I got even with the front of the truck, my trailer went crazy. I got a great look at the entire port side of my boat in the rear view mirror on one of the swings. Got it slowed down and pulled off convinced something had broken, but could not find anything wrong. Amazing the tires stayed on the rims.
I finally figured out that the high flared bow design allowed the "wind wave" off the front of the semi to actually lift the bow of the boat. At that point my carefully measured tongue weight was GONE! Did not pass any more trucks with that rig, and never had it happen again.
The great news is that I do not think a Ranger Tug would lift like that no matter how fast you went in any wind. However, I am not going to try and prove that. 🙂
The previous explanation for the roller gap is right on. Also, I always do the "Ranger Tug Chug" to be sure the boat is up against the bow roller, since I do not want the boat to get a run at the roller if I have to stop hard. Also, I do not have to worry about the transom tie-downs coming loose if the boat creeps forward. Even better, it amuses all the folks at the ramp staring at the Tug 😎

 

[Captain Nice]

I have a 2011 Ram 1500 4x4 and I just purchased an R23. Anyone else have some thing similar to this set up? Anything I should expect while towing or maneuvering. The Ram specs says that towing capacity is 10,450 lbs.

I figure the R23 on the trailer and fully loaded w/equipment might be pushing close to 8000 lbs. The truck would probably be hauling and additional 700-800 lbs of personal, gear, fuel, etc.

Any information is appreciated.

Evening Nmontagno,

Your Ram may tow 10,450# if it has no other load. GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) is often the limiting factor (if you want to tow safely and don't want to have insurance problems if an accident were to occur). That truck, depending on configuration and equipment, likely has a GCWR of 12,000-14,000#. Using your numbers of 8000# boat/trailer + 800# personnel/gear/fuel + 5000# assumed truck weight = 13,800#. I'd say you're on the ragged edge. Of course, towing on public roads (liability) vs. boat shed-to-boat ramp are two different things. I'm certain your 4x4 will get it up the ramp.

CN

 

[nboyer]

Jim - Thank you for posting this info, very useful. I had wondered how big of a truck I would need if I were to tow our R-23. It's a little higher than I had anticipated, glad I ran across your post. Cheers! -Norm