R21 Stability

capncarp

Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2009
Messages
15
Fluid Motion Model
C-24 C
Non-Fluid Motion Model
Macgregor 26x
Vessel Name
Sea Dreams
I do not have an R21 yet but am researching it. One question is . What is the stability with 6 people on board? For that matter, can you get 6 people on board safely? I am aware that the beam is only 6'8". Thx.
 
Well, the specifications indicate an 8 person capacity (1400 lbs). I'm pretty sure you could get three in the enclosed cabin, one in the helm seat, one in the passenger seat (atop the galley) and one standing between. You could probably get a couple of more up on the vberths if it's raining. The other poor soul would be out in the weather unless you had the enclosure or bimini for the cockpit area. As for stability, that's a relative term. I'd sure want everyone wearing life jackets if it's very rough, if calm, I'd think it would be no problem except for the crowding factor...It's got a BIG cockpit. Take the "virtual tour" at the Factory Website...

Charlie
 
Hi Cap'n Carp,

I've had six passengers aboard my R21EC on two separate occasions with no problems. The usual configuration is:

-Me in the helm seat, usually driving

-One guest in the companion seat inside the cabin

-Two guests on the engine box

-Two or three guests on the transom seat


Having six passengers is fun on days with nice weather. It gets a little tight when people have to pass one another, but it's not enough of a hassle to affect anyone's fun.

We don't have a large family, so our guests are always friends as opposed to family members. This affects how close you can comfortably stuff passengers into the wheelhouse. In my opinion, three is the maximum number of comfortable passengers you can have in the wheelhouse for any amount of time. One person each in the helm seat, companion seat and one person sitting on the berth sideways (with their head by one of the portholes and their feet by the other) - with a couple of pillows this is actually quite comfortable.

have fun!

-Steve
 
I would have to agree with the previous posts. We've had six aboard on many occasions and never a problem for a short cruise, but four is very comfortable. Passengers in the cockpit are likely to get splashed in any but the calmest seas (up to 1 foot) and we've learned you have to steer into the wakes of passing big boats to avoid an unpleasant roll. I stress the word "unpleasant" because I've never been concerned with the actual safety of the boat or passengers in a side roll, just not fun for those unaccustomed to the feeling. Hope this helps.

Steve Frisch
 
Thx guy's. This was info I was looking for. I am aware that the specs state 8 pax. However, my 26 foot sailboat says it will sleep 6 but 4 would be actual max. I am looking for the right boat for a commercial use such as water taxi, tour boat, etc. The R21/ec has alot of eye appeal and economy of scale. If anyone has more info plz pass it on. Thx.
capncarp,
 
CapnCarp

We sold our MacGregor 26X sailboat to make way for our Ranger Tug. An excellent move!

Sparky
 
Cap'n Carp:

I missed the part about the commercial appeal. From an economy of operation standpoint, these little tugs can't be beat, but the size and location of the engine box might present some problems. As others have stated, two (possibly three if they're small people) sitting on the back bench, two on the engine box and one in the passenger seat inside the cabin would be about all you could comfortably manage, but that makes kind of a perfect 6 Pack to match the basic license, doesn't it? Not a bad idea at all. I think you'd want either the surrey top or at least a bimini for sun protection, but the darn little tug might be a perfect option for a small water taxi/tour operation. The more I think about it, that would be a nearly perfect match for the R21-EC's capabilities. They are totally built for low cost, fun transportation. Keep us up to speed on your idea.

Steve Frisch
Savannah, Texas
 
Steve,
I guess you see what I'm thinking. From what I've been able to research about this vessel everything is cheap, cheap, cheap, except quality. This thing sips fuel, is easy to maintain and can make money with 4-5 pax. I think the average load would be 4. I could live financially with that. I looked at one at the Minneapolis boat show some time ago and fell in love with it. I would go with a top. I love the idea of being able to trailer to all the different festivals around the area. Now all I have to do is test drive one. You mentioned you never had any concerns about the safety of your pax. I guess she must be stable enough then. I'll keep you advised as to my progress and results.

capncarp,

It floats my boat to float my boat
 
Capncarp,
You might look at the 2006 at Wefings that already has a hardtop over the cockpit that would not require removal to trailer. Wefings has shipped boats all over the country and you could save a lot of money with this boat. Less than 200 hours and sips about 1/3 gal. per hour. Others have costed the top addition out and said it could cost several thousand dollars.
Check out the Wefings website or look at my album here.
Ron
 
Our lake is terrible on the weekends; there's a couple of spots around the major marinas where the waves and chop really check a vessel's stabiity. Two weeks ago I drove thru a few waves that were as high as the R-21 EC's bow pulpit. Piece of cake; drove up and thru without any problem.

A following or a quartering sea with aft wind is a slightly different story, when under power. The tug handles it OK, IFF one knows how to handle it. I'd recommend staying away from obstacles under those conditions because the tug may take awhile to respond to the helm.

Last weekend I sat at the windward mark watching the racing sailboats round the mark. I was in one of those bad areas. The tug was like a duck or a cork; it rode the weird waves without any stability problems. But, some times the motion was like riding a bucking horse. A waterline of 40 feet would have been more comfortable. 😉

It's a small boat, but a good one.

Gene
 
Hi Cap'n Carp,

I have been following this thread with interest and as a Minnasoda refugee don'tcha know, here is my two cents. The other poster comments have been spot on, based on my own experiences. We operate our boat in a large, residential marina (very similar to a Minnesota lake) and the ocean.

In the marina, even with a stiff wind and light chop on the water, stabilty has never been a problem. The only thing to watch out for is weight distribution. I weigh about 245 pounds and if you have a couple of other larger, corn fed passengers (like myself) sitting on the stern bench or starboard side of the engine box, you will have a bit of a starboard list. We have had as many as seven people onboard, including helmsman, but it is tight, as you almost have to have one of the passengers in the cabin all the time. On the other hand, we have done sunset wine and pupu cruises with one or two other couples using the engine box as a buffet area for the food and had no problem finding a comfortable place for everyone to sit. The stern bench can easily accomodate three normal size folks. We use a smaller, square shaped Igloo cooler for the drinks, and keep it on the cockpit floor on the starboard side. This allows someone, usually the host or hostess to sit and face the stern while talking to the guests and recharging glasses as required.

The ocean environment is often a completely different story. Last Saturday afternoon we were heading out of the channel with a friend in town on a layover and there was a very pronounced southern swell. Just prior to crossing under the bridge that separates the marina from the ocean he asked me about the stabilty of the boat. He got his answer a few minutes later as the surf break turned into a wall of water in front of us. Karen was at the helm and I was standing behind her and you could not see anything forward of the bow but water. Kolo Iki chugged up over the top of the wave and down into the trough without missing a beat.

The area immediately offshore of the marina, where we do much of our boating is protected by a headland and is usually fairly calm, but once you get around it you are in the Molokai channel and two to four foot waves are pretty standard. At no time since we have had the boat, have I ever felt I was in a sea condition that the boat could not handle. You would proabably have to trailer a R-21 EC to Lake Superior to find similar wave conditions in Minnesota. I cannot imagine that you would have any trouble in one of the local lakes in the Twin Cities area unless the weather was very severe, like a summer thunderstorm.

We left Minnesota almost six years ago when I took a job at Hickam AFB. I had no idea at the time we would be here this long and as the Home Town Airline has now merged with Delta, I have no idea how much longer we will stay. We bought our boat last fall because I was tired of putting my life on hold. Hawaii is a very beautiful place and you miss a lot by not seeing it from the water. We have had no regrets as Kolo Iki is very economical to operate and she is well suited for the usual sea conditions and weather patterns found in the islands. Like any boat, there are times that you just don't leave the dock.

I wish you luck with your business idea, I hope it comes to pass. An R-21 EC would be a great boat for a summer's evening cruise down the Mississippi River or Lake Minnetonka. Please let us know how things work out.

Aloha,

Rick and Karen
 
Hi Rick and Karen,
Ya sure,the home town airline. Now I understand . I'm your competition (United). I've had many layovers in Hawaii. What a great place. I retire from flying next year and am planning my second life. The plan right now is to operate a water taxi/tour boat either on the St. Croix or downtown St. Paul. Right now I run a Macgregor 26X which I'm trying to sale. The R-21 seems to be the perfect boat for my needs. There is still ton of planning and research to do. It is nice to know that there is another Minnesooten on the list. I'll keep my progress posted.
capncarp
Glenn,

Floaten my boat floats my boat
 
Hi Capn Carp I live on the Delaware Bay and it is well known for the wild waves. I fish a lot and many times
I am the only boat out. Sometimes it gets a little wet and some times it rocks a lot but it is always
up to the job.I would not want to be out in any kind of a planing hull in these conditions.
Tugboat Jeff
 
Hi! I'm logged in as my name, but should probably call myself "Ranger wannabe". I'm trying to get serious about owning a
21EC, and so far, I'm smitten. But the low freeboard amidships concerns me a bit. Texas Steve mentioned passengers getting splashed in any seas over 1 ft. Does this have to do with the low freeboard? We live on Penobscot Bay, coast of Maine, and seldom do we have seas less than 1 ft. And I assume the cockpit is self-draining. Any concerns with water coming over the gunnels faster than it can drain out?
Thanks,
Dave
 
David
The cockpit is not self bailing. The boat has a bildge pump with a float switch.
the low freeboard is not a problem from my perspective. Most water in the cockpit comes forward from the bow by way of spray and cutting through larger waves. The boat really cuts nicely through chop, though. Very smooth.
 
Dave,

The R-21 EC isn't self bailing as some of us might understand the term. When I hear "self bailing" I expect scuppers that collect water and direct it straight overboard, or open transoms that self drain the cockpit.

The R-21 EC's scuppers take the water into the bilge and a single bilge pump moves it overboard. I'm not thrilled with the design and feel Ranger should have at least installed two separate bilge pump systems for safety reasons. But, they didn't. At some point I'll install a second system, probably before Fall when I hope to take an extended trip on the TN River.

The little tug is like a cork, very buoyant. The freeboard is low which gives it that jaunty look. But, it invites spray into the cockpit area. I've had mine in crazy wave conditions and only taken very light spray aboard. However, I'd be leery in heavy, breaking wave conditions. But, probably shouldn't be out in any small boat in those conditions.

Ranger has done an excellent job with that tug with a couple of exceptions. That's a better record than a lot of companies.
 
David Vandiver":k57f1ebo said:
Texas Steve mentioned passengers getting splashed in any seas over 1 ft. Does this have to do with the low freeboard?

Dave:

My comment was directed at the fellow that is thinking of using his boat as a water taxi. As the previous post mentions, this is not a factor of freeboard, but rather the way the boat is designed to cut through the waves. Not a problem, but just an issue I wanted to mention with regard to running a taxi service.

Texas Steve
 
Hi Steve,
Thx for that info. I'm logging all of this type info so I can make an informed decision. I don't think spray is an issue that can't deal with. In calm waters and low speeds I should be fine.

capncarp,
Glenn
 
Thanks for all the informative responses. It sounds like the boat can be trusted to perform as designed in seas that could threaten other boats of this size. Some spray and the occasional crest over the gunnel doesn't worry me, as long as the bilge can be trustworthy. I agree that, at a minimum, a back up pump be installed. Like any boat taking on water over the gunnels, the pilot has to adjust to the sea until conditions change. So, I'm convinced for now that this could be a good boat for us.
I'm sorry to say that, here on the Maine coast where we have so many great boatbuilders, I can find no boat with this combination of narrow beam, flatter aft, and small inboard diesel, translated 'affordable to operate'. I'm sure somone could custom build one for me, but I'd rather not experiment with the family fortune!

Thanks Tugnuts,
Dave
 
Dave, it's a good choice!

Gene
 
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