Andrew Custis":21wh0foi said:
Andrew: I confirm your 10 knots and the 6-8 knots.
Question: Has Ranger changed to using Yanmar engines for the R-21EC today ? If so, is there a reason for this you can share with us ?
R21E cruising speed?
- Thread starter Ahab
- Start date
Andrew: I confirm your 10 knots and the 6-8 knots.
Question: Has Ranger changed to using Yanmar engines for the R-21EC today ? If so, is there a reason for this you can share with us ?
mcphersn
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OK, color me crazy, but the graph seems to be hinting at non-linearity in the three highest data points. Could the hull be approaching planing? I know that an earlier hull was reported to top out with a 40 horse diesel, but is it possible that this hull could plane with a little more oomph?
tlkenyon
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Yup....colorful crazy. See non-linearity in just three points requires a real "creative" look at the chart. It is not possible to get this hull to plane with more power. At the higher speeds she was digging a deeper and deeper hole. Maybe with the EC, which has a flatter run aft, but not with the Classic, which (at least by my observation) is a true displacement hull.
If anyone else has data of this sort, send it to me or post is and I will update the chart.
TK
If anyone else has data of this sort, send it to me or post is and I will update the chart.
TK
Capt’nKarl
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Ok. Here's the hull truth. Yanmar 30 HP diesel with full fuel, water, 4 blade prop, enough provisions and consumable liquid entertainment for 2 adults for a weekend. I don't do charts or graphs or measure anything but the amount of rum and vodka that goes into our drinks. If you're looking at running anything > 7 knots consistently; look for something other than a Ranger tug 21 EC. It's just not realistic to think this wonderful boat was built for speed. However, if you're into looking to enjoy all the sights and experiences of moving through the water at 5-6 knots burning 2 pints of diesel an hour, THIS IS YOUR BOAT! Dolphin love the sound the engine makes and the bow wave makes it the perfect surfing spot. You never have to worry about hitting a crab pot or log (during daylight); you see them in plenty of time. We love the "speed" we achieve and don't worry about a huge fuel bill.
Here's to watching the world move in a slower, safer mode.
Capt'nKarl & Sara
Here's to watching the world move in a slower, safer mode.
Capt'nKarl & Sara
Yes..... over past 56 engine hrs on our fully equipped 2016 R-21EC we still have 5 gallons left from a full tank of 18-19 gallons. Sometimes I wonder if my fuel gauge needle will ever move. :lol:
The 7 to 8 kts gives us plenty of time to wave to all that pass us by.
The 7 to 8 kts gives us plenty of time to wave to all that pass us by.
mcphersn
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Oops, I see that I was misreading the chart. I was thinking that the independent variable was across the page (horizontal), rather than vertical. The non-linearity fully supports the idea that the boat is generating more drag at higher rpm.
tlkenyon
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Yup....displacement hulls do that as a trade-off for the low power needed to get to hull speed and the negligible effect that loading has on achieving hull speed. In fact, loading can actually increase hull speed because a longer waterline (from loading-increased draft) typically has a higher hull speed. Heeling in sailboats can also increase the waterline length, which is why some heeling is desirable for the rag-bag folks.
For this hull, getting to hull speed probably only takes 5 hp or so. The benefit of the extra hp is so that one can maintain that speed in the face of strong winds and waves, which can exert incredible force.
My Classic also works really well as an actual tugboat and the hp comes in handy for that.
TK
For this hull, getting to hull speed probably only takes 5 hp or so. The benefit of the extra hp is so that one can maintain that speed in the face of strong winds and waves, which can exert incredible force.
My Classic also works really well as an actual tugboat and the hp comes in handy for that.
TK
Stew
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baz":2jz2lh08 said:
Stewart here, new to the forum. I'm looking real hard at the R-21 EC and have a visit to the factory already scheduled for this coming Wednesday, can't wait!
Baz, at the risk of being forward, I would love to take a peek at yours some time if you wouldn't mind 🙂.
I'm in the Smokey Point/Marysville area and would mostly be launching from Everett and either cruising north to the San Juans or south to some of the attractions closer to Seattle. A sustainable cruising speed of 8 to 9 kts would be just about right, I'm not looking to go real fast but also would like it to not take the better part of a day to get to the islands from Everett.
I've seen mentioned on this forum that a person really needs to spend at least a little bit of time on the R-21 to make sure the boat is a good fit and things like cruising speed are in alignment with my expectations. I'll be trying to get a ride figured out here soon.
The boat I currently am playing around with makes the R-21 EC seem downright luxurious and fast, so again I'm used to slow and not looking for double digit speeds. See pic below to see what I'm talking about! 😎. I guess I could tow it behind my new tug as a dinghy, lol.
I'm glad I found this forum, there is a lot of great info here and maybe I'll see some of you around!
Cheers!
Stewart
Me at the south Marysville boat launch
Captain Nice
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Welcome to the Forum; an R-21 candidate for sure!
Would love to know how you posted a picture...
CN
Would love to know how you posted a picture...
CN
Bruce Moore
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Captain Nice":fmaqlo9f said:
Use the Img tag button about the post box.
Copy and paste the URL of your image, available anywhere on the internet, between the two brackets ][ in the middle.
Click Preview to see if you got it right.
If you have a photo album here on Tugnuts you can use the g2Img tag button. It will launch a dialog box to allow you to navigate to your album, select and image, and load it to your post.
You can find these, and other instructions in the BBCode Guide available from the Content Menu on the home page.
Cheers,
Bruce
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I just came back from the lake, no wind, no current, no wakes. Calm as can be. At WOT got 7.5 knts. The bottom paint on my boat is black and rough so I expect with a clean, slick bottom I might add another knot or more in those condition.
Good luck! Wefings Marine in Eastpoint Fl has a nice 2014 21EC for sale
Good luck! Wefings Marine in Eastpoint Fl has a nice 2014 21EC for sale
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Captain Nice":1g6mrik1 said:
Thank you for the welcome! And Bruce Moore's help on posting pics is spot on.
bjp447":1g6mrik1 said:
That is good info on the speed and conditions, thank you. It looks like it's about 35 to 40 knts from Everett to either the San Juans or down to Seattle so even if I was cruising at a steady 6 to 8 knts I'm only looking at around 4 hrs travel time. Not so bad, I know once I get out on the water I'll forget about all this speed talk and just really be enjoying the view!
tlkenyon
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It is the Journey...not the Destination. In think someone famous with a slow boat said that once (a rag-bagger, probably).
TK
TK
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My max rpm is 3750 at 8 kts full loaded for a 2 week trip and my cruising speed is 5.6 kts at 2400 rpm
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...Cruising Speed? While checking out the newest brochure info for the R-21EC today, it appears that everything on it is probably correct and has remained somewhat the same on newer R-21EC models except for the major Engine Manufacturer. It has changed from Yanmar to Volvo Penta. That detail has not been revised in the RangerTugs brochure. Would there be a way to finally update this brochure for it to be 100% accurate into the foreseeable future? Maybe a new and improved Annual Brochure with correct information would be of more use to potential customers than just keeping them guessing. Going completely paperless might be a good idea for the environment. But good sales brochures are the ticket to accurate boat specs & upgrades for informed buyers.
:x Bill & Jane 😛
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Bill & Jane,
As of now the brochure is 100 percent correct. The Volvo D1-30HP engine is not being offered. For the time being we are offering the Yanmar 30HP engine in its place.
Thank you,
As of now the brochure is 100 percent correct. The Volvo D1-30HP engine is not being offered. For the time being we are offering the Yanmar 30HP engine in its place.
Thank you,
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Interesting. Wonder if Yanmar made them an offer they couldn’t refuse? :?: Oh well, both good engines so life is good.
Since beginning this thread, we have purchased a 2015 21EC - sea trialed today and towed home to it's new home in Guilford, CT.
The boat is equipped with the Volvo power and with a four blade prob, maxed out at 3000 rpm doing about 8.5 kt and throwing an enormous wake. The DB level from the engine is on the uncomfortable end at that rpm in the wheelhouse - In fact, I found it to be quieter at all rpm's in the aft cockpit seat. I'm not sure adding additional insulation would be the answer as much of the noise seems to be transmitted into the wheelhouse through vibration.
In other words, I wish the boat were a wee bit faster at cruising speed - we averaged 6 kts at 2400 -2600 rpm. We are ex-sailors after all, and used to going 6knts max. 10 would be fantastic but I don't think possible with how much water is being pushed off the bow - seems like a displacement boat to me. I also wish the engine noise could be hushed in the wheelhouse. But still we bought the boat. All boats are a compromise after all, and the boat seems perfect to our needs in every other way.
Heck, I dropped my wife off at the library at the conclusion of the trip - boat still under tow - was as though Dewey Decimal himself dropped everything to admire the boat out front!
The boat is to be christened "Padre Pio" from our sailing days, where in Gloucester Ma we once admired a commercial fishing vessel sailing under this Saint's name.
More to come....
The boat is equipped with the Volvo power and with a four blade prob, maxed out at 3000 rpm doing about 8.5 kt and throwing an enormous wake. The DB level from the engine is on the uncomfortable end at that rpm in the wheelhouse - In fact, I found it to be quieter at all rpm's in the aft cockpit seat. I'm not sure adding additional insulation would be the answer as much of the noise seems to be transmitted into the wheelhouse through vibration.
In other words, I wish the boat were a wee bit faster at cruising speed - we averaged 6 kts at 2400 -2600 rpm. We are ex-sailors after all, and used to going 6knts max. 10 would be fantastic but I don't think possible with how much water is being pushed off the bow - seems like a displacement boat to me. I also wish the engine noise could be hushed in the wheelhouse. But still we bought the boat. All boats are a compromise after all, and the boat seems perfect to our needs in every other way.
Heck, I dropped my wife off at the library at the conclusion of the trip - boat still under tow - was as though Dewey Decimal himself dropped everything to admire the boat out front!
The boat is to be christened "Padre Pio" from our sailing days, where in Gloucester Ma we once admired a commercial fishing vessel sailing under this Saint's name.
More to come....
Stew
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sheral":1cqp5jkv said:
I met up with Andrew last Wednesday at the Kent factory and asked this very question. Andrew indicated the Volvo engines did not meet the current emission standards. There must've been a recent update to marine diesel emission standards since this seems to have been a recent change. Andrew did mention that the R21EC's performance is for all intents and purposes identical between the two engines.
Edit: Looking here: https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyPDF.cgi?Dockey=P100OA0B.pdf it has the following footnote:
Tiers 1 and 2 for marine engines less than 37 kW are subject to the same emission
standards as for land-based engines. See Table 1 in 40 Code of Federal
Regulations (CFR) Part 89.112 and 40 CFR Part 89.104.
Since 30 HP = ~22kW it looks like these little diesels have to meet more stringent land based engine standards? It's a little tricky making heads or tails of some of this info and it doesn't indicate which land engine standards, light duty, heavy duty, etc. But, it looks like they are probably talking about nonroad small compression ignition engines, like here: https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyPDF.cgi?Dockey=P100OA05.pdf