R25/27 on the hook or at a mooring

[sleepyboat]

Good day to all,

An R 27 is in my near future and my big boat friends tell me I will not be happy when a wake or wave hits and rocks the boat. They believe I should go with a wider beam 9.5 or greater. I would like to hear from R25 owners with the good or bad news on my rocking delema. I understand a choppy day, I'm talking flat water and a big boat wake.

Best regards,

John D.

 

[rt11002003]

Beam is only one factor influencing rolling. Ask your friends about stablizers used on all sorts/sizes of boats. I've even seen smaller boats (18 to 20 feet) putting out outriggers when anchored. They attached weights to lines attached to outrigger and drop the weights overboard.

Rolling is influenced by the chime (hard or soft), center of gravity (lower mass is more stable, harder to start movement and has slower cycles of roll), beam relative to length, wave size and frequency, wind, windage of the superstructure, draft (resistance to roll caused by having to displace to water), etc.

When the boat is in the water, walk around on the boat you like. That will give you some indication of how much shifting of force (weight, in this case) will effect its rolling. It's not a perfect test, but it may give you a feel for how tender the boat is.

Gene

 

[SlackwaterJack]

Stability and comfort aren't always the same thing. I've been on many wide-beamed boats that were very incomfortable due to their short quick motion at anchor. Yes, they had perhaps more initial stability as you moved about from side to side but the short violent motion would toss you around even in a slight wake. Often the motion's speed/unpredictablity was what made it so uncomfortable...example an 8.5 ft beam pontoon boat has very violent motions when taking a wave or wake on the beam...also boats with tri or twin hulls generally do the same and also can have a tendency to wander badly at anchor especially if they have much windage.
My previous boat (28.5 x 8.5 beam trihull) would swing rapidly 180 degrees or more and unless a stern anchor was used it would pull the front anchor out in a matter of minutes (sometimes I felt like I was water-skiing). As it swung it would catch waves on the beam and would rock very violently easily tossing people and their stuff around the cabin...didn't anchor out much because of it). Another example is my Albin 25 (8'6" beam)..I found it was very rolly in a beam sea and could be quite unpleasant..until I read that it needed a bit more weight higher in the boat to slow down its rate of roll...tried adding a couple hundred pounds about 2 feet above the waterline and ...presto much more comfortable (I really miss that boat)

Several years ago when I had boats in San Diego harbor I would watch other boats(mostly sail) at anchor in the public transient mooring area along Shelter Island. Due to prevailing winds they generally aligned with beams exposed to wake. Watching the arc of those masts rocking I would notice how boats of similar size and beam would react to wakes (like watching metronomes?). Some would slowly tick out a waltz and others were break-dancing... All due to hull shape, keel height/length, mast height/weight, etc...

My current R-21 only has 6'8" of beam and is a joy at anchor..pretty much set and forget. Yes, it readily responds to crew movement but in an easy and predictable way. Rocking is quite noticable but not violent. At anchor I find it will respond to wakes by swinging a bit to take it more on the bow (enough that I don't get an uncomfortable roll). Underway it is solid.
I don't remember any of the ownwers of the larger Rangers mention much of a rolling problem.

In short...beam ain't everything when it comes to stability, hull design and weight distribution are probably more important. Ultimate stability (resistance to capsize) needs more weight lower in the boat, sea-kindly behavior needs a higher center of gravity. (worst case for comfort ..a sailboat with a long heavy keel and no mast...real hard to capsize but it'll be impossible to keep your lunch down)

 

[yuukis]

We own a R 27 and I must say that we don't find this to be a problem. I suppose if you are at anchor and some jerk goes by throwing up a big wave you will bounce more than if you were in a 40 ft. with a 12 ft beam and weighs 10 tons or more for the 5-10 seconds that it takes for the wave to pass. However, I just haven't had that experience very often, if ever. I am not interested in getting a "big boat" for the occasional bad actor that may come around sometime. I am sure that there will occasions for all boaters when they might think the situation would be a little bit better with a different boat for what ever the reason. All I can say is that the R 27 is about as perfect as you can get, for lots of reasons, for us. When you purchase your boat, you certainly should have a priority list and know all the pro's and con's. I would think that this issue would be far down the list of con's if it is even on the list. I am confident that you will be very happy with your R 27.
Charlie

 

[sleepyboat]

To Gene,SlackwaterJack and Charlie,

I posted Readers Digest and you in turn gave me War and Pease, thank you all for sharing your knowledge with me and I can see I have much to learn. You all gave me valid points to consider. In the end if you like it you go after it and follow your heart. With that being said my wife and I just got back from Salem, Ma where we put a deposit on the R27 with delivery some time mid-spring.

Thanks again,
John D

 

[Bruce Moore]

Congratulations!

We have an R-25, with the same 8'5" beam. It's our first boat, so I can't give a comparative perspective. And, we mostly cruise from marina to marina. That said, being based in a very busy Elliott Bay (Seattle), we deal with constant wakes and long-lasting, far-reaching swells from the ferries, tugs, and steady stream of freighters. Toss in wind and current, and we get some pretty confused seas, right out of the breakwater.

The boat handles everything, especially if you approach each bump accordingly. We tend to keep and active two-person watch, so it's only a occasionly when we get a brief rock. Things don't really fly around much, unless we're banging into heavy seas - which we're getting incrementally better at it but would prefer to avoid.

At dock, we've learned to let each other know if we're about to shift the weight of the boat significantly. That doesn't really happen much when we're both aboard. But if one is in the cabin, and the other is climbing up from the dock, a simple "stepping up" is all it takes to keep the crew smooth, so to speak.

You'll have a blast!

 

[doke01]

R25 rocking at anchor is minimal compared to my prior boats (all 25' and under). You might rock every once in a while from the wake of a boat passing at high speed but the R25 is very predictable in its movement. The worst place I have ever stayed with regard to rolling caused by wake is the 79th St. Boat Basin in NYC. You are beam to all the Hudson River traffic and those barges/tugs/ferries can throw up some mighty big wakes. I found the boat did rock pretty aggressively (for every boat there actually) but the great thing is that it really settles down quickly. Going wider you will also reduce things like fuel efficiency and sea-worthiness. There is a reason commercial ships and offshore sailboats are long and narrow.

 

[JamesTXSD]

The key phrase in the original question is: "big boat friends." 😉 You wouldn't expect them to say, "Oh, those smaller boats are great - wish I would have bought one."

I do not have a Ranger, and our C-Dory is a completely different hull shape. I had a friend who stepped on the coaming on our boat and declared it "tippy"... his boat was bigger, but no more comfortable at anchor and couldn't go a LOT of places that we can, with our "little" boat. The important thing is finding the boat that works well for YOUR situation. I have since had a lot of bigger boat owners who are very curious about our trailerable boat, since we have been coast to coast to coast with ours. There are advantages to each; but, trailerable and comfortable is a mighty fine combination.

I think you will find the Ranger 25 or 27 comfortable for cruising and just great at anchor. It may move a bit more than your friend's boat, but if the wake is big enough to make you uncomfortable, it is likely doing the same to ALL the boats in the anchorage.

Best wishes,
Jim B.