R25 DRIPLESS SHAFT

Lobo

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
290
Fluid Motion Model
C-248 C
Hull Identification Number
FMLT2562J708
Vessel Name
Lobo
MMSI Number
316013957
I have a 2008 R-25 and a dripless shaft -- as many of you do. I had to find out information about it this week the hard way as -- while doing maintenance in my engine compartment while at the dock -- slipped and my foot managed to break off the hose barb going into the top of the dripless shaft. The immediate result was a very beautiful 12" high fountain of sea water coming into my engine compartment. Fortunately the fountain was well within the capacity of the automatic bilge pumps.

The reasonably immediate solution was to plug the hole with a piece of dowelling, and this stopped the inflow. There isn't much pressure behind the flow -- the prop shaft is only a foot or so under water.

Further examination -- and trolling on the web -- brought the following conclusions:
1. The hose comes from the engine and forces water into the dripless shaft in the event that water from outside stops coming in (that would be the "fountain"). The dripless shaft needs cooling water.
2. The hose barb deteriorates over time, and it was fortunate that I found this out at the dock rather than on the water.

The repair is quite easy, made MUCH easier if the boat is out of the water. In my case I put it in our club slings and just lifted the boat until the prop shaft was visible above water. I removed what was left of the hose barb in the top of the dripless shaft housing and cut the last inch off the hose (so I could get at the barb). In order to keep the boat safe while I was off buying parts I scrounged a grease nipple from the club stores, installed it in the shaft housing, and let the boat back down in the water, still in slings.

I purchased two 1/8" HBarb x 1/4" MPT "fuel hose barbs (take a look at part number 033405-10 on the West Marine site to see what I am talking about; page 606 in the 2011 catalogue); and two new hose clamps. Back to the boat, raised it, and a quick 5 minute fix. I have a spare! Being anal I also picked up a brass plug to screw in "just in case".

If your boat has had lots of sea time, or if you see any sign of rust on the 4 clamps around the rubber hose of the shaft unit, plan on a replacement when you are next out of the water. My hose barb cost under a dollar, to "inspect and reassemble" is not financially worth it. Also replace the 4 clamps while you are down there.

On my boat the hose was just long enough to cut one inch off and still use it. Next time it's a "brass hose mender" and a 6" piece of hose as well.

While trolling the web on Dripless Shaft Seals I found only covers with bellows flexing. Mine looks like a piece of engine hose, no bellows flexing. The web sites said the bellows type should be replaced every 6 years. I think the hose on my boat is much stronger -- and as it doesn't flex -- "probably" will last far beyond 6 years.

If I could figure out how to attaché email photos, I would. Email me davidwtrace@gmail.com and I'll send you some photos'

Dave
"Lobo"
 
Thanks for the Email and photos. Looking at the photos and thinking how one might avoid this happening I would imagine a small piece of starboard to cover up and straddle the prop shaft recess in that area could serve as a foot rest. I've also put my foot in that area and if there's any moisture on the surface there the shoe slips easily. In fact my Yanmar mechanic who performed my 250 hr engine service had similar trouble and took great care where he placed his feet. If nothing else, the starboard foot rest I suggest could be stowed and brought out for use when required. I also have a prop shaft brush and I'm not wanting to disturb it with the foot rest idea.

BTW... I could not locate the WM part 033405-10 -- Hose Barb, 1/8" NPT x 1/4" Male Thread you reference by that part number on the WM website. I did find what I think is equivalent... a MOELLER Brass Hose Barb, 1/8" NPT x 1/4" Male Thread Model # 9398850, Manuf. # 033433-10. A similar number mind you. It looks almost the same as the one in your photos but it has 4 hose teeth grips vs. your 3 hose teeth grips. Did you happen to remove the end tooth ?

Hose-Barb.png


Thanks for posting.

I post your photos here for others to view. 🙂

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There are reasons for things nautical (and aeronautical) that are traditional - which look all klunky when there is a high tech item to replace them with.

OTOH, the traditional part is usually cheap relative to the high tech. It is also reliable. The standard packing gland on a prop shaft is trouble free. Maybe needs a drip adjustment every thousand hours or so. A leaking packing can be fixed with a strip torn off your shirt until you get back to port.

We go through this decision process nearly every day on the farm. We need to do something with some machine where we have seen some shiny new bauble at the trade show or in a magazine and think "Gee, that would work good on this planter/plow/whatever. Then we do the cost/benefit analysis and 99% of the time grab a hammer, "adjust" the old part and keep going.
 
BTW... I could not locate the WM part 033405-10 -- Hose Barb, 1/8" NPT x 1/4" Male Thread you reference by that part number on the WM website. I did find what I think is equivalent... a MOELLER Brass Hose Barb, 1/8" NPT x 1/4" Male Thread Model # 9398850, Manuf. # 033433-10. A similar number mind you. It looks almost the same as the one in your photos but it has 4 hose teeth grips vs. your 3 hose teeth grips. Did you happen to remove the end tooth ?

I am pretty sure that you should use bronze material with regard to boating. Your replacement mentioned above refers to it as brass. I remember reading an article about sea cocks in a Boat US magazine and they were very specific that you not use a typical plumbing valve because it is brass and it will deteriorate much quicker that a marine grade bronze fitting. This may not be as critical with this application, but I bet you the one supplied by WM is bronze.
Mike Rizzo
 
By the way, what you have is not a "dripless shaft" seal assembly but rather a standard packing nut shaft seal. That does not diminish the usefullness of the photos and description of the problem since all of us could suffer the same problem. I will check that pesky little hose fitting when I get pack to my boat. One thing that bothers me is that the packing nut assembly is made of bronze and the little hose fitting coming out the side should be bronze too. If it's brass, it will be subject to galvanic corrosion more so than the bronze it is screwed into and could corrode and weaken over time. Brass sometimes holds up pretty well, but not as well as bronze in salt water. Anyway, it's a good warning to all of us to check that little hose fitting since it could potentially cause a leak below the waterline which could be catastrophic.

Thanks for the heads-up!
 
Good Monday morning. Bright and sunny here in Victoria.

Attached is an email from Don Starbuck at Marine Hardware, the supplier of these and other parts to Ranger Tugs.

The catalogue link is great -- you will see many familiar parts of your Ranger.

From: Don Starbuck [mailto😀on@marinehardware.com]
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 8:23 AM
To: Dave Trace
Subject: RE: RANGER TUGS

Dave, I did see the photos from last week. That was an unfortunate accident that happened, but I always have told my customers ‘be very cautious when stepping about the bilge area’ because there always seems to be a wire, nipple or a handle right where your foot wants to go!
As to that shaft packing assembly, there isn’t much to it. It has a packing nut and a lock nut and that is really all there is to know about it. It sea water starts dripping from the front of the packing nut excessively ( it may drip about 1 drip about every 60 seconds and this is considered ok) then the Lock Nut (aft small nut) will need to be loosened and the Packing Nut threaded onto the unit tighter (1/4 turn), then retighten the Locking Nut. You may find that you will need to adjust once or twice to allow the packing to obtain a new set.
Other than this, it is pretty maintenance free.
You can view this part in our catalog at http://www.marinehardware.com and download the Running gear catalog. Proceed to page 25 and the nut style is at the lower half of the page.
Hope this helps.

Don Starbuck
Customer Service
800-526-5971 x229
don@marinehardware.com

And Baz' idea of a starboard removable step/platform! Good idea. A couple of supports put in with 5200 sealant and you don't have to drill holes in the hull.

Dave
 
There seems to be some confusion in this tread as to the correct size of hose barb. On p.610 of the West Marine 2012 catalog we have:
Moeller Fuel Hose Barbs, Brass Hose Barbs/Male Thread
033405-10 ¼”NPT 3/8” hose ID (WN#8978710)
033433-10 1/8”NPT ¼” hose ID (WM#9398850)
 
Has anyone found a dripless barb fitting in bronze? I'd like to pick up a spare to carry onboard, just in case.

Jim
 
I received a response from Don at Marine Hardware, regarding my dripless shaft hose barb fitting question. Apparently the barb fitting that comes on our R27's is 360 machined brass. However the housing it threads into is bronze. Don states that as long as we get these fittings in brass we should be fine. Marine Hardware is the supplier of many things for Ranger Tugs including the dripless shaft parts.
 
Do we or does some have the correct size for our boats ? I ask as a previous post in this thread call this out to our attention. 😉
 
Barry: I was told by Don at Marine Hardware the fitting is a 1/8th NPT for our R27 1 1/4 shaft diameter. The second number 1/4 has to do with the hose size. I think the Moeller Brass barb fitting photo you posted is one and the same.

Jim
 
trailertrawlerkismet":1xhsvw1d said:
Has anyone found a dripless barb fitting in bronze? I'd like to pick up a spare to carry onboard, just in case.

Jim

Thanks Jim... I've also ordered one as a spare just in case. For $3.79 it is a no-brainer... Since my son gave me a generous WM E-Card for my recent birthday I've added it to my Shopping Cart. 😉
 
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