R25 head discharge line

[Roger]

Has anyone replaced the line between the head and the holding tank on the R25? I have to do this and would appreciate any advice. Thanks.

Roger on the Lucky Fin

 

[Levitation]

My best advice: pay someone to do it for you...
Now, having said that I tend to do most of my own work (No dear, I am NOT cheep, just frugal)
So, what is wrong with the hose? At my peril of looking like a dolt I will forge onward without waiting for an answer...

I went to the boat and took a quick look just now... It looks like the typical Ranger agony of 5 pounds of you-know-what in a 3 pound sack... I would approach it by disconnect at the stool, open the hatch under the sink in the head, look for tie wraps to cut - might want to consider using a tool to open the tie wraps and leave them functional for holding the new hose instead of cutting... Hose runs over top of the water heater and along the upper corner of the Starboard locker, around the stern, to the tank... As you work the hose out, have a pull line tied to the end to help with pulling the new hose back in...
You might have to move the tank forward in the engine room to get to the connection (I'm not sure of that as I have fresh varnish drying and cannot open the seat locker to look down in there at the moment.)

In preparation, fill the tank with water and soap, agitate, pump out, repeat until looks clean... Then partially fill with water and bleach and let sit overnight, then empty before doing the work...

Yours till the brown stuff hits the fan,

 

[abcandjrc]

Same question as Levitation had. (I'm cheap in addition to being frugal.) To which I would add as advice: If it is "just" a blockage, especially likely if you use salt water for a flush, you might have a calcium/mineral blockage. You might try flushing several cycles of straight vinegar through the line, letting each sit for an hour or so. It may heal itself.

We lived aboard and had a blockage on our Crealock 37 with a single head on a weekend once. I had no spares available. I was able to cure it by removing the line, beating it severely on a stray piling to break up the deposits, :cry: then reinstalling the "like new" hose again. From that time on we regularly dosed with vinegar and had no more blockages for 8 years.

I would stick to vinegar rather than stronger acids just to remove the risk of damaging something (like face or hands or anything else you might place over or on the head).

I also posted the following in the heads of our boats:
Ship’s Rules for use of Heads
1. Everybody sits, every time!
Come on guys, you don’t always hit the mark, and these are smaller than usual. Besides that, they are often moving.
Just normal splashing is enough in these close quarters to require frequent difficult and unpleasant cleaning.

2. Nothing goes in the head which hasn’t passed entirely through your body!
Marine heads can be fussy things. Almost anything can jam them and make for a big problem.
Toilet paper, if used, should be folded and placed in the wastebasket behind the head.

3. Flushing.
Get instructions on operation before you first use the head!
Pressing the flush switch for about 5 seconds will wet the bowl before use if desired.
To flush, activate the timer for the treatment unit by turning it to “START FLUSH“. Then press the flush switch just long enough to clear the bowl, usually about 10 seconds.
The head can be used, but not flushed, if the treatment unit is already running. Wait for the unit to stop, then re-activate it and flush as described above.

A few macho types whinced at #1, and I suspect a few cheated. The second item under #2 is a nuisance, but nothing compared to unclogging a head. Our Atlantic 44 had Lectrasans, hence the details in #3. We previously had similar specific instructions for the Groco on the Crealock.

 

[Roger]

The problem is not a blockage, it is odor. I realize there may be many reasons for odor problems. I have rebuilt the toilet, experimented with different holding tank deoderants, used vinegar and flushed the tank as well as possible. From the things I have read on line it appears our problem may be a saturated discharge line.

Roger

 

[lornec]

This a sub subject, but closely related.
Can a vacu flush system be squeezed into a Ranger Tug? They usually are usually smooth operators and the plumbing is rigid PVC.

 

[abcandjrc]

I have read of that also, but remain skeptical. In 8 years of living aboard, we never encountered an odor that didn't originate with venting. Gasses are hard to track down but can escape at the vent, at the tank cover, at the bowl, and quite often at a failed anti-siphon loop in the lines. A small leak at a connection or in a hose could result in an odor. I know they sell special "odor proof" lines but I wonder how much is sales hype and how much is real.

I suppose that if raw sewage lay in lines long enough the odor might penetrate the rubber, but even to consider that puts a real strain on my credulity. Not saying it is definitely an urban legend, but .........

Does anyone have a real-life, first-hand experience with this?

I sure wish you well on this. The only thing that can make a night on board less comfortable is a boat full of no-see-ums. With that, I have more than enough experience to know it is real!

 

[trailertrawlerkismet]

Roger: Not knowing the actual area of your odor I'll contribute what we have done on our R27. We have installed a SaniGard charcoal activated inline filter. We mounted this unit, bought at West Marine, inline on the vent hose under the cockpit seat area. This is the second boat we've done this with and it this is the odor you have then you should look into this option.

Jim F

 

[GulfSailor]

I have read of that also, but remain skeptical. In 8 years of living aboard, we never encountered an odor that didn't originate with venting. Gasses are hard to track down but can escape at the vent, at the tank cover, at the bowl, and quite often at a failed anti-siphon loop in the lines. A small leak at a connection or in a hose could result in an odor. I know they sell special "odor proof" lines but I wonder how much is sales hype and how much is real.

I suppose that if raw sewage lay in lines long enough the odor might penetrate the rubber, but even to consider that puts a real strain on my credulity. Not saying it is definitely an urban legend, but .........

Does anyone have a real-life, first-hand experience with this?

I sure wish you well on this. The only thing that can make a night on board less comfortable is a boat full of no-see-ums. With that, I have more than enough experience to know it is real!

Unfortunately I can confirm that it's no legend! :cry:
Although it's been first-hand experence it's always been on other people's boats though. 😀
Many types of hose get used for heads and some of them are most certainly permeable to odor, even some types labeled 'Sanitation Hose'.
Take a look at the 2011 West Marine Catalog p.506 where they show 'Good' 'Better' and 'Best' sanitation hoses.
Re-label them 'Not in a Million years!' 'Passable' and 'OK' and you'll see where i'm coming from.
Rigid PVC is ideal, but not always the most practical to install.

In a perfect world there would be a steady downhill slope from the head to the holding tank, but while possible if it's designed that way from the start it often doesn't work out like that.
Even when well supported, hose will try to sag if it can and it's those low spots retaining both solids and liquids that cause the problem.

Incidentally, we've never had a problem with TP on any of our boats, but that's because we always use the cheapest single layer (soft) 'Dollar Store' type we can find. Save the quilted, scented, triple layer, super strong, velvet finish for back at home.

We're also very generous with flushing. I'd rather empty the holding tank any number of times than try to clear a blockage from the middle of a sanitation line. :shock:

Couldn't agree more about the 'no see ums'. For those who haven't experienced them, imagine a comma with teeth then multiply it by a thousand. They're like something from a Stephen King novel! 😱

 

[knotflying]

Another good argument for an Airhead composting toilet!

 

[Levitation]

Do a google on 'Peggie Hall sanitation hose'... She has written the book on the subject...
Use Trident 101 hose for the new line...

Here is one citation
http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/sh ... p?t=126319

 

[GulfSailor]

Do a google on 'Peggie Hall sanitation hose'... She has written the book on the subject...
Use Trident 101 hose for the new line...
Here is one citation
http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/sh ... p?t=126319

The 101 is good stuff, but it will permeate odors after a number of years. Also it's black which makes it aesthetically unsuitable for some boats and locatiions.
Poly X is the ultimate, it's white and has a lifetime warrantee against odor permeation, but costs twice the price of the 101.

As for Peggy, I think she's probably the leading expert on marine sanitation in the whole US.
What she doesn't know probably isn't worth knowing.