R27 Stabilization

[Beyond R27]

Hello,

We are new to the community and have had our 2016 Ranger R27 for a couple of months. We truly love the boat, but were wondering about stabilization. We have the boat in the Great Lakes, specifically Lake Erie, which is shallow and unsettled quite a bit of the time. In side-on seas the boat is very hard to control and seems to get pushed around a lot due to the keel and narrow beam. I have done some research here and on the web and found fins and interceptors. I fully appreciate the amenities of this boat for the size and was just wondering if anyone had any experience with fins or interceptors to help with stabilization issues? Our boating season here is limited so any knowledge or tips in getting the most out of the season would be appreciated.

 

[serpa4]

I don't own a CW boat, but what do you mean by fins and interceptors?
Thanks

 

[Chimo]

I did spend some of my career looking at stabilization but it was all in much larger vessels. I always thought of smaller fixed fins being applicable to jet craft while active roll stabilization using interceptor fins such as Naiad are more applicable to larger yachts, typically in swell conditions where the gyroscopes have time to respond. If I remember correctly most of these smaller [yacht] stabilizer systems require a 24 V DC supply, typically taken off the main engine. Though they work well even these systems have limitations.

I was in conditions such as you describe yesterday off S. Pender Island. The Southeast wind of 10 to 15 kn was delivering some nice wind waves that were added to the title rip confusion. Coming in slightly forward of the beam the boat was difficult to keep on course. Having the diesel weight low in the boat helps but you are correct that a boat with a narrow beam and almost no keel is not the best in your conditions. Be glad that you don't have a rounded hull!

Good luck

 

[FWTMD]

What Chimo said.

And a few more points.

1) Fluid packs the boats full of features and gear, into every nook and cranny. Any solutions that add anything inside of the hull is going to present significant issues with finding a place to put it.

2) Every customization has a risk of killing resale value. Major customizations like you are considering carry major risk. You can spend a lot doing it, only to find the real cost is in a difficulty to find any buyer at all, at any reasonable price.

3) Beam seas are an issue on pretty much every boat, large and small. Large boats have more space to install solutions, but the costs are large too. Seems to me the smallest gyro stablizers run $25k plus installation, and take 45 minutes to spool up to full speed and effectiveness. Might be wrong about that, but it won't be a minor cost.

 

[ixlr8]

I have only been on one boat that had interceptors, it was a 66' Sabre Dirigo. According to the captain and the owner, they both felt interceptors did help with stabilization as they act quite quickly. They did depend on speed to be effective. They were not very effective at 2-3 kts, but definitely helped above 10 kts. I have no idea how they would respond on a RT-27.

 

[Chimo]

For those of you interested, or just bored on a smoky afternoon, here's a very short YouTube showing a stabilization project I was involved with 12 years ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe8pYthLcpk. I worked for Voith before retiring. Currently the technology is available with all electric propulsion and is the only system in the world to offer both static positioning and roll stabilization together in 4.5m waves. That's important if you want to put a supply or service vessel next to an offshore oil rig or a wind turbine and have it provide a stable working platform. The most common applications are in Tractor tugs (NOT Ranger) and ferries.

 

[Red-27]

I have wondered about how something like zipwake would do on these boats

 

[chicagosam]

Beyond R27,

I am on Lake Michigan with a C-242.
There is nothing you can do to change the dynamics of our 8.5' Beam boats with the types of swells and waves we get out here (short periods). You will need to change your boating style.

If you are taking seas full on the beam you will need to take a more "indirect route" to your destination.
Take the beam seas at a 45 degree angle at give it some more throttle. Eventually your "indirect route" will turn into a following sea or a head sea.

I just took my boat out on 3-4 ft swells/ long periods (not Lake Michigan wind waves - short period) and it was reasonably comfortable at 45 degrees. It took me 50% longer to get back to my harbor, but it was "reasonably" comfortable for the wife and kids. The last couple of weeks here have been high swells and waves, but I have taken the boat out during this time. It is important to check the wind direction and wave directions. I had to call off 1 trip due to the direction of the swells/waves, as it would have been full-on beam seas both coming and going.

-Sam

 

[ixlr8]

I have wondered about how something like zipwake would do on these boats

Zipwake is a brand of interceptor. I have been wondering the same for my 27OB.

 

[knotflying]

Accept the boats handling characteristics and pick your cruising days.

 

[Chimo]

I have wondered about how something like zipwake would do on these boats

Zipwake is a brand of interceptor. I have been wondering the same for my 27OB.

Certainly more effective at higher speeds and perhaps we longer period waves. If you listen to https://www.powerandmotoryacht.com/vide ... as-zipwake full deployment can take 1.1/2 seconds. That's a long time if you are bouncing around in a tidal rip. I agree with the comments that "tacking" is usually a better solution in my type of boat.

 

[Irish Mist]

I have a 2011 R29 and experience the same with beam seas.. The boats are shallow draft and narrow so I am not surprised with the reaction of waves we take on the beam. I have found more speed tends to help some with stability, and simply avoiding weather that will make the ride uncomfortable when ever possible is the best. My biggest issues are the bigger boats that seem to need to pass too close and almost on step making a huge wake. None of these would be much of an issue if the boat was empty, but living on the boat there tends to be a lot of things that do not get stowed properly from time to time.

 

[Brian 27 OB]

I have wondered about how something like zipwake would do on these boats

Zipwake is a brand of interceptor. I have been wondering the same for my 27OB.

Anyone install the Zipwake or Humphrees interceptors? I am thinking of having the 450mm/18”+/- wide units put on my 27 OB. Minor glass work to fix the transom angle but I think it’s worth it, the stock tabs are acceptable but could be much improved. I run with my tabs fully down quite a bit. I had a couple boats previously with Bennett’s auto tab system to keep the boat trimmed and level. I do miss that feature. And the interceptors are even better and in addition will keep the boat flat in turns and can help reduce roll and rebound.

 

[j&lgray]

In my experience of 9 boats from 22' sailboat to a 34,000 pound, 40 foot trawler and of those 9 boats, 3 of them were Ranger Tugs; and probably have 16,000 miles of cruising that included the Great Loop and Inside Passage to Alaska and back: looking for a technology fix (stabilizers) to over come the laws of physics (waves and swells) will be a frustrating search process.

The Ranger 27 is not the boat for all conditions and stabilizers (fins or gyro) will likely not compensate for the lack of mass in the boat nor the design of the hull. Simply, the travel window with a boat that weighs 10,000 pounds is not as big as one that weights 30,000 pounds. Where technology has really made a difference for these sea conditions is the modeling and accuracy of the wind speed forecast. Windy, Sailflow and Predict Wind are examples of great applications to carry in your pocket.

With all boats, you should know what your personal perimeters of a Go and No-Go decision making. For me, I stay in port when the wind is sustained at 15 knots or higher or when the swells are 3 feet or more AND the period is less than 9 seconds (1 to 3 ratio is the minimum). I do not care about rain or temperature (unless it is snowing!).

When you are caught out there in lumpy seas, do what others have pointed out: Never take them on the beam and "quarter" them by going through them at an angle - that place where the boat does not roll and it does not bounce up and down.