R31 - packing gland questions

[Gin]

Hi all -

I've searched past threads and can't find any that squarely answer two questions I have about the packing gland on my 2019 R31.

First question: Can the stuffing be replaced without removing the prop shaft? A local boat yard will do the work while the boat is out of the water for bottom paint. From a quick initial look at the packing gland on my boat, the yard's lead mechanic doesn't think there is room to repack it without pulling the shaft. For sure, the space to back the nut off and get to the gland is tight. But too tight? In all the threads about packing glands, I didn't find any that suggested repacking required pulling the shaft. On the other hand, the comments by those who have done it or had it done all seemed to be by owners of other Ranger Tug models or Cutwaters. Any R31 owners out on the forum who can weigh in?

Second question: Will a PSS seal fit in the space available on an R31?. If I have to go to the expense of pulling the prop shaft, I wondered about replacing the gland with a PSS seal. The mechanic at the yard is fan of them, but his quick assessment is that there isn't enough room for one on the R31. Based on past threads debating the pros and cons of PSS seals, I'm not sure I'd go that route even if I can. But I'm curious about my options based on the experience of those here on the forum. Has anyone installed a PSS seal in an R31? If so, did it require any other modifications for it to work?

Thanks for any light you can throw on my questions!

Gini

 

[zekeandboone]

Good Morning, Gini!
Kevin Fetter with R31 Blondie Installed a PSS packing gland. He loves it. Hopefully he will see this and weigh in>
Good to see you and Colleen at the show.
Steve

 

[Gin]

Steve, great to see you at the show too! I did find a thread from 2019 in which Brian Brown explained that the some of our installations are sufficiently tight that it can be necessary (or at least better) to pull the shaft and repack the gland on the bench. The discussion wasn’t specific to a R31, but it led me to think I have one of those installations. Which could be an added benefit of a PSS, if one will fit in the space available. So I’m hoping Kevin will chime in.

Thanks Steve!

Gini

 

[BB marine]

Question (1) Can the packing be replaced without removal of the shaft ? (Yes) Will removal and replacement of the packing be an easy project in a R31, R29, R27, R25, C28, C30, C26? (No) There is not a lot of room to remove and install the packing in the gland.

Photo of the clearance Cutwater C26 which is similar to all inboard Fluid motion models. R31 has more room, maybe 1" more which makes it easier.

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The portion of the gland that the packing is removed from is the area shown in the picture below the 3" mark that is the gland nut.

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This tool is used to remove the packing material. It is flexible enough to make the bend between the shaft log section and the nut when moved forward and hitting the shaft coupler.

Yes it can be done and is in my opinion easier than removing the taper shaft coupling off the shaft taper. The clearance is tight. Many technicians get crazy with slam hammers to break the taper loose. Removing the prop, shaft, and engine coupler can take longer than just replacing the packing.

If it were my boat and the technician that I felt comfortable with doing the job requested the shaft removed. This is the job I would request being done.

Remove shaft and install either a Tides Shaft seal Dripless . ( lip seal with a spare mounted to the shaft will give you 20 years maintenance free) or a PSS dripless, this will give years of maintenance free service but( when it fails you will need to pull the boat) Both are good seals. If you take the clearance dimensions either manufacture will be able to set you up with the correct seal for your R31.

Replace the cutlass bearing as long as the shaft is removed. Your boat is a 2019, I don't know the hours but based on the fact that you are replacing the packing I would assume at least 1000 hours or more. The water lubricated gland packing should last a minimum of a 1000 hours if proper adjustments have been made and the shaft is aligned properly in the center of the shaft log. If alignment has been off at all the packing would fail prematurely and so would the cutlass bearing.

Prop shaft out, have the shaft checked for runout. The shaft is out this is the perfect time to confirm that the shaft is straight.

Send the prop out for a scanning. Any out of balance issues or or trueing can be done now.

Reinstall all components knowing that when assembled it will be as good if not better than new.

After assembly make sure a good shaft alignment is done. Many technicians fail to do this . When I say good .003 is the worst you want to see. The ZF gears do not tolerate a lot of misalignment, packing glands are forgiving with alignment of any thing under .006 (that is if you can stand the vibration). Dripless seals are not forgiving of alignment and will have decreased longevity if more than .003.

Boats that utilize keel extensions with shaft logs are either installed right or wrong when the boat is built. Many manufactures use lazer alignment when installing the extension with a preset target if the engine is not installed or use the center of the engine coupler if the engine is installed. Some manufactures use the old style approach building a jig that is mounted to the engine stringer using predrilled holes that match the engine mount locations of the engine to be installed. The jig is bolted in place and a "Dummy shaft" is used to properly align the keel extension. This sets the keel extension in the exact location center of the log when coupled to the engine. In 2019 the photo below shows how Fluid Motion installs keel extensions.

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2x6 cleated with plywood and a slam Hammer to bring it into spec. While I speculate this is old-old school technology, it must work because there are a lot of Ranger Tugs and Cutwaters out on the water cruising to Alaska or making their way around the Great Loop. This technology does work but needs to be checked, then checked again. If it is done right then aligned is aligned no matter how it is achieved. Me being the half empty glass of water guy. I alway like to make sure that aligned is aligned.Old-Old technology as a lot of room for error. You better hope the technician came to work with his game day hat on! Keel extension shaft logs need to be installed correctly or you will be replacing Packing, reverse gears, cutlass bearings and will always live with a vibrating engine and boat. Many boat owners live with misalignment issues because the boat has alway been misaligned. When the drive train is repaired and everything is running true and straight they are amazed at the difference.

If you are going to go through the cost of packing replacement with the shaft removed spend the money and do it right. Take notes and follow the job. Your boat may have been spot on since day one but now is the time to have it spot on again.

 

[Gin]

Wow, Brian. As usual, tons of great advice in your post. A bit overwhelming in scope, but great advice just the same.

I may be going down a rabbit hole on all this unnecessarily. I put the repacking project on my boatyard list mainly by way of preventative maintenance. I'm at about 580 hrs -- not anywhere close to 1000. I don't have a major issue with the packing gland. At most, the packing seeming to wearing in some. Following the advice in other posts (a lot of them yours), I can dial in the adjustment well enough (no drips with the engine off, and 3-4 running and in gear). But I end up with a slow (1 drop or so every minute or longer) with the engine off after I've put on some hours after that. I thought that with this haul out, I'd have the packing gland repacked just to stay way ahead of it.

But whatever I end up doing, your post has armed me with just about everything I might possibly want to know and consider doing. Thanks (I think 😉 )!

Gini

 

[BB marine]

Different story, I read more into your post. I looked at the age of your boat and thought there may be something going on if a 2019 boat needs a packing gland repacked. Especially if a service technician is advising removing the shaft.

It sounds like your preventative maintenance is above standard. Kudos! My thoughts on packing replacement is replace it when you have used up most of your adjustment. If done properly this will be 1000 hour plus. Variables would be as stated above in my lengthy post. There is nothing wrong with packing. I always consider packing gland as good as dripless. There are in my opinion two causes of premature packing failure. Over tightening and poor shaft alignment. The shaft must run in the center of the packing gland bore. The dripless will take away over tightening. The dripless will still fail if the shaft is out of alignment. Disregard my previous post for now. Wait another 500 hours to do all those checks.

 

[Haifisch]

Hi Gini,

I had mine done last winter at 850 hours while the boat was doing it out of the water.

I don’t think they pulled the shaft since the bill for the repacking portion was just $290. They also set the initial drip after they put it back in the water. I think the packing take some time running to settle in, as I have have had to adjust it a couple of times since it was done.

This was done at CSR Marine in Des Moines. It is the delivery dock for FM and the do a lot of paint and other work on Ranger tugs, so maybe just give them a call and ask if they pull the shaft. Also had my prop scanned and balanced, what a difference!! Boat was noticeably smoother.

Good luck!

 

[Gin]

Brian, thanks for the follow up post. This may be one of those instances where repacking the gland before I need to isn’t worth it as preventative maintenance given what may be involved.

Haifisch, thanks for posting your experience. Sounds like checking with CSR Marine would provide some good insight. I know and trust them (they did the first bottom paint on my first Ranger Tug and also this one). And given what they charged you, sure sounds like they didn’t feel the need to pull the shaft. I appreciate the tip, whether I need it now or somewhere down the road (waterway?).

Gini