Radar vs Autopilot? If you can only do one...

[idratherbeboating]

Newbie question... I have a new to me '09 R25 and doing some upgrades. Budget constraints mean I can only add radar OR autopilot. Which would you do and why?

Boat will have AIS send & receive (I've already decided I'm adding that!). Cruising out of Boston, mostly day trips, some overnights, weekend on Cape, etc. No epic journeys planned.

 

[BB marine]

Radar would be my choice. We have both.The auto pilot is nice but I find when running in open waters with any kind of sea's I don't use it. The auto pilot, pilots the boat straight it doesn't negotiate waves. To me auto pilot is a luxury not a necessity. Radar is a safety device. I worked in your area in the late 80's Rigging and delivering boats to Boston Harbor, Dorchester, Quincy, Scituate, Plymouth, and the Cape and many other harbors as far south as Narraganset Bay. Massachusetts Bay and Cape Cod Bay is beautiful boating but always seemed to have some moderate Seas, Lobster pots, and occasional Fog. For someone doing some day cruising and weekend trips my opinion would be go with Radar over auto pilot.

 

[Champ]

Radar would be my choice also.

 

[NorthernFocus]

Based on your description of how you intend to use the boat the radar makes more sense IMO. That presumes you learn to use it when you don't need it so that you can navigate when you do need it. AP is really most useful if your boating plans involve a lot of time spent at the wheel.

 

[trailertrawlerkismet]

Id go for Radar based on how you described what your boating will be. Radar will help wth fog whereas autopilot is better suited for long distance cruising, which you are not doing yet. Get the radar for safety now and add auto pilot when your cruising style changes to more long distance.

Jim F

 

[jagizzi]

I would say radar as well. We have both. Not having radar when it is needed changes the plan and timing. Not having autopilot would make things a bit less convenient.

In other words, if conditions require radar and you don't have it you can't leave the dock, or you could be forced to turn around having already left the dock if it was clear where you left.

Not having autopilot won't turn you around and back to the dock for any set of circumstances, you would just grumble a bit if the cruising day was a long one.

 

[JamesTXSD]

With time and experience, you will find that autopilot is very helpful in combination with radar - when you are relying on radar to navigate, it is because of low visiblity (fog, dark)... safe practice in low visibility (even with radar) means you are going slow. I have found the autopilot to be most helpful when going slow, relieving the person at the helm from making minor steering corrections AND being able to keep a good scan going, between the radar screen, maintaining heading, and eyes outside the boat to look for traffic or obstructions.

At anything beyond displacement speed, I find I have to be more vigilant when using the autopilot... you don't want to be like the guy who left his boat on autopilot, went to use the head, and was hit by the Washington State Ferry! 😱

In order of preference: radar first, following as soon as possible with autopilot.

 

[Cutwater28GG]

Personally I would get the radar and then consider choosing autopilot over AIS.

for single handling the autopilot is a godsend.

 

[TexasEye]

Best Autopilot for RT-25 and cost

 

[knotflying]

Radar. Quite frankly (and I will catch hell for this) AIS receive was great on the rivers, anywhere else I find it to be annoying and turn it off. Save your money towards an autopilot. I would list the autopilot above AIS. I have been in PNW and the entire New Your area, See and avoid works well. On the rivers you can't see with all the switchbacks, so there I found the AIS receive worked well in that application. One should be able to identify a large vessel on radar and avoid it.

 

[NorthernFocus]

Radar. Quite frankly (and I will catch hell for this) AIS receive was great on the rivers, anywhere else I find it annoying...

Well let me take some of the heat for you. Honestly for small pleasure craft AIS probably does more harm than good. It can give someone a false sense of security. Lets face it the biggest risks we face out there don't come from the vessels that are larger and less maneuverable than our boats. I can see them (either visually or on radar) in plenty of time to get out of their way. The ones I worry about are the little aluminum jet boats running 30 knots in heavy fog without radar nor transmitting on AIS. Even with radar you better know how to use it and be able to make quick decisions to stay out of the way of those guys.

 

[idratherbeboating]

Radar. Quite frankly (and I will catch hell for this) AIS receive was great on the rivers, anywhere else I find it annoying...

Well let me take some of the heat for you. Honestly for small pleasure craft AIS probably does more harm than good. It can give someone a false sense of security. Lets face it the biggest risks we face out there don't come from the vessels that are larger and less maneuverable than our boats. I can see them (either visually or on radar) in plenty of time to get out of their way. The ones I worry about are the little aluminum jet boats running 30 knots in heavy fog without radar nor transmitting on AIS. Even with radar you better know how to use it and be able to make quick decisions to stay out of the way of those guys.

Sounds like you are arguing for radar over autopilot. 😉

I understand what you are saying about AIS-receive encouraging over confidence. However, presumably there are some good safety aspects of the *transmit* side of AIS... which makes everyone aware of my location.

 

[JamesTXSD]

Radar. Quite frankly (and I will catch hell for this) AIS receive was great on the rivers, anywhere else I find it annoying...

Well let me take some of the heat for you. Honestly for small pleasure craft AIS probably does more harm than good. It can give someone a false sense of security. Lets face it the biggest risks we face out there don't come from the vessels that are larger and less maneuverable than our boats. I can see them (either visually or on radar) in plenty of time to get out of their way. The ones I worry about are the little aluminum jet boats running 30 knots in heavy fog without radar nor transmitting on AIS. Even with radar you better know how to use it and be able to make quick decisions to stay out of the way of those guys.

Sounds like you are arguing for radar over autopilot. 😉

I understand what you are saying about AIS-receive encouraging over confidence. However, presumably there are some good safety aspects of the *transmit* side of AIS... which makes everyone is aware of my location.

Well, not everyone... NorthernFocus makes an important point about people running at speed in the fog (or dark) with NO radar and NO AIS - they can't see you and no amount of transmitting AIS will get to them. On more than one occasion, I have made a "securite'" call when I have seen small, fast-moving targets on radar... I'm guessing they don't have, or don't know how to use VHF, either.

Yes, radar can give you a heads up so you have the opportunity to get out of the way of those who are... "running blind."

 

[knotflying]

"Sounds like you are arguing for radar over autopilot. 😉

I understand what you are saying about AIS-receive encouraging over confidence. However, presumably there are some good safety aspects of the *transmit* side of AIS... which makes everyone is aware of my location."

Yes, If you have to make a choice Radar over autopilot. As far as AIS transmit, don't be mistaken, only those who have AIS that is turned on will see you.

When I flew and the conditions were instrument only everyone had a transponder turned on and you were under control of Air Traffic. That is a lot different then some people having it and some people not having it. It is the knucklehead out there without radar or AIS moving along that I worry about, hence the false sense of security.

My point was if you want to save money up for the next item save it for autopilot and don't spend the money on AIS.

 

[NorthernFocus]

I understand what you are saying about AIS-receive encouraging over confidence. However, presumably there are some good safety aspects of the *transmit* side of AIS... which makes everyone aware of my location.

Thus demonstrating the point about the false sense of security. No doubt that AIS is nice to have. But it is a supplemental nav/safety tool not a primary nav tool. Not "everyone" can see you. AIS is only required on vessels greater than 1600 gross tons. How many of the tens of thousands of boats smaller than that (most of which were built/equipped before AIS was even around) do you think are AIS equipped? No need to guess though. Next time you're on the water in a busy area on a nice clear day, do a 360 degree scan and count the boats. Then count how many show up on you AIS plot. Guess what, if you can't see them on the AIS then they can't see you.

Not trying to dissuade anyone from using AIS. It's great. Just saying one needs to understand what it is/isn't capable of doing.

 

[idratherbeboating]

Great points on the limitations of AIS. Good to remember!

So on the question of autopilot vs. radar... sounds like radar is the strong winner. Thanks to everyone for their thoughtful comments!

 

[Cutwater28GG]

just to add one last point.

Every time I use my boat I use the autopilot. 1 in 30 trips I use the radar.
when I want to use the radar I am really grateful to have the radar.

 

[NorthernFocus]

OK maybe one last and final point. There is a simple, inexpensive(arguably free) alternative to radar. It's called an anchor. More pleasure boaters get themselves in trouble by trying to meet a time schedule than for any other reason. When faced with conditions that crew/equipment are not prepared for Just Say No. Drop the hook and read a book 😀