RE: YANMAR 4BY2 SERVICE BULLETIN

[South lake]

Burt's Diesel Service (http://burtsdiesel.com/index.htm) came down to my boat today. The Tech replaced the hose and did the 50 hour service.

Note to Yanmar: You guys are idiots if you think that hose can be replaced on a classic R25 in an hour and a half. I watched the guy try to do it. The way that engine is in the boat made this a very difficult job.

I still love this boat but will now give offerings to the boating gods in hope that the engine has no more recalls.

 

[baz]

...snip...
Note to Yanmar: You guys are idiots if you think that hose can be replaced on a classic R25 in an hour and a half. I watched the guy try to do it. The way that engine is in the boat made this a very difficult job.
...snip...

Can you say how long it did take to replace the offending oil line ? I ask, as our R25 Classic will be inspected June 4th and the oil line will be replaced as necessary. Would like to know in advance how much of my time I should allow for this. Thanks. 🙂

Also, do the engine beauty plates have to be removed ?

 

[South lake]

He did remove the top plates. Peter in Massachusetts reported that it took him 2 and 1/2 hours using some ingenious use of paper clips and string. My guy took longer than that, maybe 3 hours or more and invented his own tool to get the three washers on when installing the new hose. On the R25 classic the issue is getting hands into where the hose attaches in back of the pulley. As I understand it, R25SC's and R27's don't present the same obstacle since the engine is entirely accessible from the cockpit.

 

[SmallChange]

It does indeed seem to be much easier on the R25SC than the Classic. I had the oil tube replaced on my 25SC on Thursday. The dealer wisely sent 2 people and with one in the cockpit and the other reaching through the access under the cabin step the job was accomplished very efficiently. They were on the boat approximately 45 minutes. That of course does not include their travel or prep time so with 2 people that probably still comes out to at least 2 hours of labour. Also I had prepared the through hatch access and removed the top plates before they arrived and reinstalled them when the job was done. I was very pleased with the service and if anyone in the Sidney BC area needs to have this done and would like the name of the dealer who is now experienced with this service just send me a private email.

 

[Osprey]

I found the post by Peter of Salem, May29, to be very helpful. I went to the boat prepared to remove the top plates but using Peter's note I was able to locate the oil line right away with no tools required. Thanks, Peter.

 

[baz]

I have my Gallery Marine mechanic at my R25 Classic as I post this. The access to the oil line is absolutely incredibly difficult. Both beauty plates HAVE to be removed along with a large metal pipe that traverses left to right. Even then, access to the lower oil line's lower banjo connect is nigh impossible. I laid on my belly shining a LED light through the circular hatch for the fuel shutoff valve to help guide the mechanic's socket onto the bolt head holding the lower banjo. This took close to 5 mins and when the bolt was released the mechanic had to carefully extract the bolt by hand. In this process the existing copper washers dropped away into darkness somewhere.

At this point some 1.5 hours had been consumed.

Whoever posted that paper clips and string were needed was not joking as getting the new copper washers in place is going to be a huge challenge.

I will post back here after more work has been done along with some photos.

Update...a few hours later

Well it's all done. 😀

The new Oil Sensor line was installed and it took almost 4 hours, and that was with me helping at times. This job really does require a second set of eyes, AND a straightened wire coat hanger... 😉 ...wire coat hangers are hard to find these days so I shall guard mine carefully.

1) I helped in telling/directing the mechanic when his socket was on the head of the bolt securing the lower banjo heads. I had to lay down on my belly with a LED light pointed at the lower banjos to do this. The LED light was shone through the circular hatch that exposes the fuel shutoff valve.

2) Placing the new copper washer between the engine and the first banjo was very very time consuming and the mechanic's patience was severely tested and he almost gave up with many grunts and groans until I suggested he use my trusty coat hanger wire (one used by Andrew a year or so back to unplug some seep holes for me) to place the washer correctly. Plenty of blue grease was used to hold the washer in place. Once that was done the bolt holding the two banjos to the engine was inserted and then I again helped/directed the mechanics socket onto the bolt head. In this process one washer was lost to the darkness of the bilge and Yanmar does not provide spare copper washers with their oil sensor line replacement kit.

Given the above and to be fair, this repair process really does require TWO people at times.

After the above the job went quite quickly and the black metal oval pipe that transfers the turbo's compressed air to the intake manifold could be re-installed.

Before installing the beauty plates the engine was run at about 1500 rpm for 15 minutes to ensure there were no oil leaks etc. It all looked fine and everything was replaced.

I give many thanks to Gallery Marine for sending out such a pleasant mechanic to perform this repair task. They should equip him with cameras in his finger tips to make the work easier... :roll:

The mechanic said afterwards that without the wire coat hanger he quite likely could not have performed the work. Thanks Andrew for leaving me the wire coat hanger from the 2010 Bremerton meeting. 🙂

The only negative really, after all this is -- my R25 is now heavier by the weight of one very small copper washer. :lol:

Here are some pics I managed to capture during the 4 hours...

The new Oil sensor line provided by Yanmar

The new Oil sensor line provided by Yanmar showing closeup of the 5 copper washers that were included

Closeup of the banjo end showing the hole suppling oil/pressure to the oil pressure sensor

Sheafing covering a portion on the new oil sensor line - presumably to protect the line from being worn through when in contact with metal parts or maybe simply to provide some stiffness to the line.

Labeling info imprinted on the new oil sensor line

This is the old oil sensor line that was replaced by the new one. The main difference is the new line is all rubber hose and has no metal portions. I presume it is the metal tubing used in the old oil sensor line that fails in some way -- a severe break, a small crack, etc -- caused by vibration shock or maybe fatigue over time. It's hard to believe this metal tube used in the old oil sensor line would/could fail under an oil pressure of 80 psi when first starting the engine. I asked the mechanic about this and he had no good answer except to say "over engineered". :roll:

The next 5 photos were taken as the mechanic went about doing the repairs... 😀

Note the long coat hanger wire to right of mechanic's head... 😀

 

[South lake]

Great post Barry. Clearly shows why this is more than 1 1/2 hours on the Classic R25.

 

[SEEKER]

It took 2 mechanics to hold every washer and nut in place and 1 additional mechanic to tighten the whole works up. About 2 hour job counting all the prep and finish on a 25SC. I've got 10 hours on the new oil line and so far no copper in my bilge or oil either. Knock-on Wood.

 

[JohnH]

Here is my experience with an R-27: It took one mechanic 5 hours to make the replacement. This was after I had removed both the panel inside the small hatch in the step and also the vertical panel in the "cave." The mechanic was at a Gold level Yanmar dealer, but not a RangerTugs dealer. The mechanic had recently been to Yanmar training on the 4BY2 series engines. He was very familiar with the engine, but not necessarily RangerTugs' installation. His problem was, not surprisingly, access to the front of the engine. I was not present to help, and I don't know if having a 2nd mechanic (as some others have reported) would have reduced his time.

I am not looking forward to replacing the raw water impeller, since it is also at the front of the engine.

Has anyone given thought to cutting away the existing step and replacing it with a completely removable step, as sailboats frequently have?

-- John H

 

[HRowland]

Our R27 is at a Yanmar "Gold" dealer now. I have not heard anything yet about how it is going.

Howard

 

[knotflying]

John,
I don't want to create a runaway thread here, but I too have considered reconfiguring the step similar to the R-25 classic. I am not sure if that will help though since the fuel tank will also present an obstruction.
Regarding the oil line replacement. I have been coaching my local "Yanmar Certified" mechanic as has my dealer and Mack Boring with the replacement. We started with, " This is impossible", to, "okay we will give it a try and you should have it back on Friday". We are now into week two at the shop. My experience with Yanmar certified mechanics has not been the best to date. I am not sure what their certification process is. When I get comments like, "Oh, this has covers on it" and "We never used synthetic oil before", it is evident that the process is lacking.
There is no denying that this is a difficult installation and if you have never seen the engine before you can really be lost. You would have thought someone from Yanmar would have made a video to better describe the installation process. Their direction sheet fails to mention the, mirror, paper clip, string, contortionist and patience required to get the job done. Add to that the five copper washers they sent and no extras. Do you think someone may drop one in the bilge while they have their muscle spasm from being contorted for an hour? It may take 1.5 hours to get the washer. If you have done it before you can be well within the 1.5 to 2 hour window, but without experience I am sure your 5 hour time consumption is a possibility. I am keeping my fingers crossed that my boat will be ready on Friday, but if I were a betting man I don't think I would place one here.

 

[Jmangiameli]

Just had my oil line relpaced on my R-25 Classic by Doug at Goldstar Marine in Port Townswnd.

It is a 2 person job for sure. I acted as Doug's eyes. It took us 1:47.

Words of wisdom from Doug: " Any one can build a ship in a bottle, but it takes a really special guy to repair the engine on that ship in the bottle"

I'm thinking I agree.

 

[HRowland]

"Little Debbie" now has the oil line replaced. It was done at Brewer Yacht Yard, Cowesett. They have a couple of mechanics that have attended the training for the BY2 engines. They told me it was not easy. I dropped it off yesterday and it was done this morning, I do not know how long they actually worked on it. I have the original oil line to use as a paper weight.

Howard

 

[Andrew Custis]

Its good to hear that everyone with the BY2 engine is making the proper steps to get their oil lines replaced. Some boats are certainly going to be a bit more difficult than others. The Ranger R25 Classic has quite a bit less access than the Ranger R25SC and Ranger R27 making this job quite a bit tougher.

Peter Haywood can correct me if I am wrong but I believe he told me it took him less than one hour to replace the oil line on an R25SC or R27. I have heard of a few different scenarios that the engine mechanics had to cut a hole into the white plastic bulkhead that separates the engine compartment from the aft end of the fuel tank which is accessed by a white plastic hatch inside the cabin. I wanted to make sure that everyone knew that the white plastic bulkhead was removable. After the screws are removed from the bulkhead, this piece will slide out entirely into the aft cabin (cave). If you have any questions about this, please feel free to contact our office team and we will be glad to assist.

Ranger Tugs
253-839-5213

 

[knotflying]

Mine was finally completed today! Good to hear Howard that your mechanic has had training on our engines. Sounds like I will know where to go in the future should an issue arise.

 

[walldog]

Day 2 of the Saga replacing the oil line of Willies Tug continues. Day 1 was started about 3:30 PM when the mechanic arrived from Cap Sante Marine Service. We spent the next couple of hours removing panels to even be able to see the line. Removing the wood and insulation sound panel at the front of the engine was easier once we realized that the vertical panel in the cave that has the 120vac outlet and 12volt outlet had to be removed first. The rest of the time was spent removing the offending line and talking about ways to assemble the end of the oil line with the turbo line and the 3 copper washers. It will definitely be a two man job. Luckily the competent mechanic Dale is an ex-US Marine of about the same vintage as I, and we get along fine. Consensus is that we will use a combination of coat hanger and gluing or sticking the washer that goes against the engine block. Then bringing the bottom of the oil line with the other two washers and the bolt assembled to the turbo line. The problem is that we can only get two fingers to the area either from the side or from the front. And the only way to see is to be at the front and guide the person at the side. Hopefully at the end of today, I can give you a report that all is well again with our beloved Willies Tug.

 

[JohnH]

Perhaps we could get a posting describing the process that enables efficient replacement of the fuel line in R-27s and R-25SCs. It won't help those of us whose fuel pipes have been replaced, but it will help those who are 'in process" or not yet underway.

For starters, I offer the observation that, in my R-27, there were 6 screws holding the plastic panel (4 under the step and 2 more in the cave), and that one of the screws was accessible only after removing the vertical panel (4 screws) with the electrical outlets in the cave. Three of the screws in the panel under the step and all of the screws in the vertical panel can be more or less invisible until you feel around, because they got "buried" in the fuzzy carpeting. I know this because I removed these panels before the mechanic arrived.

I was not present for the actual engine work, so I don't know exactly what problems were encountered, but my mechanic seemed thoroughly familiar with 4BY2 engines and had received specific Yanmar training on those engines, and it took him (working alone) much longer than the allotted 2 hours.

-- John H

 

[BaseCampAnne]

My goodness, the picture certainly tells the story, doesn't it?

Great photo, Willie, and great commentary, Herb!

Anne

 

[sportner]

Our oil line was replaced in much the same way as described by Herb but the third washer was held in place by a long set of forceps by the second person. The process took about 1 3/4 hours with me removing and replacing the panels.

 

[walldog]

Willies Tug oil line replacement finale: Dale from Cap Sante Marine arrived about 8:30 am with the BMW/Yanmar Special Tool, the DALEH-4HOURFOR-2HOURJOB.

After sticking the washer on with 3M Yellow cement, I placed it between the turbo line and the block while Dale stabbed the turbo line and washer with the bolt with the oil line and two washers. This was a bit difficult for me, as I either had to put the washer in place or see as my eyes do not focus to do both. A younger person would have less difficulties as their eyes focus closer than mine do now. The picture below shows the Special Tool with the washer attached in place and the bolt with the oil line and the other two washers just starting to thread into the block. The new oil line is flexible enough to now slip it up under the intake tube and water line to its place under the oil sensor. Torque down, check no leaks, replace panels, and we are done. Basically Two good hours yesterday, thinking about all night, and two good hours this morning. Dale and I both agree that it would take a special person to be able to do this alone. Neither of our arms are long enough.

Thanks Dale and Cap Sante Marine. It was a pleasure to meet Dale and relive our common past as we worked.