Reliability and get you home options.

[Pete]

Just about to buy a Ranger 27 and I'm interested in learning more about reliability issues. In particular, problems that have left the boat in need of a tow. I've read about the defective engine heater hoses but would appreciate hearing if there have been other "disabling" problems Also, I'd like to add a "get you home" outboard motor if there's a setup that has a large enough engine to provided decent propulsion in chop and wind (9.9 hp?), yet is relatively convenient and easy to use.

Just for perspective I'm very familiar with single diesel boats and have one in Florida. But there you'll find a towboat every few miles and the water is generally so shallow you can drop anchor and wait for one to arrive. I'll be using the Ranger on the Great Lakes where towboats are few and far between and anchoring frequently isn't an option. In fact up until a few days ago I had been intending to buy a Rosborough in large part because of its twin engines. But then my wife persuaded me the Ranger was much better suited to our kind of boating and, as always, she's right.

Pete

 

[knotflying]

PhilR from TUGALONG just added a kicker on his boat, so you may want to look at that thread. As far as reliability goes, anything can happen at anytime with any boat so as the boy scouts say,"Be Prepared".

 

[trailertrawlerkismet]

The biggest two problems on the water are fuel and impeller issues. With that said and with a concern for getting off of the water if you have a fuel problem you can improve your odds greatly by installing or having installed a duel Raycor fuel filter systems with a pressure gauge so you always can read if the filter is becoming restricted, change the filter on the fly and continue for shore. In addition always carry a spare impeller, the proper tools and know how to change one out. I can not speak for others but in the last 4 years we've put 1,250 hours on a prior trawler and 213 hours on our Ranger Tug, both powered by single diesel engines and we have had no issues. This does not mean you can not and therefore the reason to be prepared, like Mike from Illusions mentioned. Pete, I think you'd be much more satisfied with the Ranger Tug for all the right reasons but most importantly you'd make your wife a real happy boating partner.

Jim

 

[Pete]

Mike and Jim, thanks. Appreciate the input. Phil has been very helpful. However he has a 5 hp outboard and I was wondering whether anyone has had success with a larger motor.

As for "being prepared" I totally agree - which was why I am trying to find out if there are issues I should be aware of and deal with before they become issues. In my experience and that of friends I've cruised with for years, fuel problems have been almost non existent if you are filling up in high throughput US marinas, though I have twin Racors with pressure gauge on my Florida boat and I'm assuming there's room to instal them on the R27. Also I've only seen one impeller failure but even so I change my impeller annually and carry spares.

But in the past 10 years of power boating I've seen or experienced design or installation flaws that have led to good business for TowboatUS. For example on one of my earlier boats the raw water strainer was located directly above the alternator. Kind of obvious accident waiting to happen except I'm a slow learner.

And to be clear, Jim, i'm not still debating whether to buy a Ranger or not - the order goes in on Monday.

Pete

 

[Levitation]

Pete, the best part of 'reliability' is called 'maintenance'...
Long distance tuna trawlers are all single engine because of the cost of fuel... These boats go thousands of miles a year chasing the tuna across the endless blue water... Obviously they carry more spare parts than we do (they have more storage room) and are prepared to wrench on the engine while way out... But, they also do routine maintenance out of season which reduces the need to do 'wrenching' ...
While having a wing engine is good in theory, taking care of your diesel in the first place is better - and less money...
Besides, if the boat owner is not willing to do the dull, routine maintenance on the main engine guess what the odds are that the kicker will start that ONE time he really, really needs it?

 

[abcandjrc]

Pete, the best part of 'reliability' is called 'maintenance'...
Long distance tuna trawlers are all single engine because of the cost of fuel... These boats go thousands of miles a year chasing the tuna across the endless blue water... .......

But most also have slow turning, mechanically fed, engines. The electronics on those boats is to find position and fish, and are in the pilot house, not the engine room.

Our humble-and-obedient-servants in the legislatures and bureaucracies (where few can even spell "injunear") have decreed that diesel must be as "green" as grass. And our profit-at-any-cost-but-ours manufacturers (who hired folks who claim "I are a injunear") have tried to wring the most horsepower out of the least amount of materials and by pretending diesels can run like a gasoline engine. Most of the failures I read about on here and have encountered on the water are not because people didn't change oil, or change filters, or keep belts tight. They are due to putting delicate and unproven electronics in a harsh marine environment, often bolted to a sharply vibrating engine, and due to methods made to lower the cost to them as long as they survive past the warranty period (and betting that the ones that don't make it that far will not adversely affect their bottom line as much as the cost cutting will advantageously affect it.

Those things result in engines "cheapened" for us. As my favorite teacher beat into our heads over and over, "There is no free lunch!".

 

[Pete]

The points you and others make about the importance of maintenance and of being able to fix problems yourself are well taken. But among the groups that I've cruised with I can think of 5 instances of disabled boats and none of those were the result of lack of maintenance or bad fuel. Also, on this forum there have been instances of failure because of the Yanmar hose problem - again not lack of maintenance. Now 5 failures in 10 years among several boats is a pretty low failure rate but as far as I'm concerned one is one too many if I'm offshore with no towboat close by.
But I don't want to make too big a deal out of this. If someone had a good get you home system I simply wanted to learn about it.

 

[trailertrawlerkismet]

All good points by everyone but one of Pete's questions still begs to be answered......do any of our Tugnutters have a suggestion or experience with a kicker or get me home outboard set up for the transom of the R27 that Pete is thinking of ordering today?

Jim

 

[abcandjrc]

I was going to edit my previous to say I am thankful the Yanmar in our R21-EC, except for buying HP by revs instead of displacement, is close to the old diesel concepts. No electronic metering, etc.

Last night I was thinking about the get home problem. I passed on answering even after composing a response something like this and opting to not hit Submit. But since no one else has suggested this, here is about what I had as an answer:
I notice that the OP spoke of his wife, so I am assuming there will always be at least two people on board. That is pretty much necessary for this mode.

When living on our Yanmar 4JHE-powered sailboat we always towed a dinghy. A dinghy powered by even a small outboard can be used as a tow boat in a real emergency and the utility factor of having a dinghy is great. Obviously mounting the engine on the tug would be a bit more convenient for an emergency, and most likely more efficient. But even with all the "complaints" from atop my soapbox this morining I still acknowledge that failures are few. So just a tow line to the engine on a dinghy would be about all the backup I would provide for a 27.

I would not go to the trouble of carrying gasoline and mounting an engine on the tug "just in case" but having a dinghy makes boating so much more flexible anyway that then it becomes worth the trouble. At that point, $140/year for unlimited towing is a lot cheaper.

I also second the input from the OP's wife. The reliability of a single screw boat is sufficient to overcome most of the advantages of twins (the only one I count is maneuverability). And having all that running gear hanging out in harm's way can get pretty expensive. Don't ask how I know that, but I have pictures....... 😱 .

 

[mspaugy]

You could always get a dingy and outboard and install a mount for the dinghy outboard on the swim step for emergency use. Once I pull the trigger and purchase a ranger that is what I will be doing if I lose confidence in the Yanmar.

 

[Pete]

Using the dinghy to tow in an emergency sounds like a good idea in calm condition. In choppy and windy weather I'd worry about effectiveness and also safety, with one of a not so young couple in the dinghy and the other in the Ranger. I think I'll bank on the Yanmar/Ranger 27 now being pretty well sorted and good preventive maintenance.

Thanks for your input.

Pete

 

[abcandjrc]

You could always get a dingy and outboard and install a mount for the dinghy outboard on the swim step for emergency use. Once I pull the trigger and purchase a ranger that is what I will be doing if I lose confidence in the Yanmar.

Good compromise suggested here.

We always had a dinghy in the water. It is so nice to be able to go ashore, or to explore creeks, or visit around in anchorages. With mspaugy's suggestion you could have the best of both worlds.

My reservations concern buying an engine (big dollars these days) and carrying gasoline on board only for emergency use. At that point, 10 or maybe 20 years worth of towing insurance is cheaper without the hassle and the hazard.

 

[mspaugy]

My current tow insurance is $400 a year and I think that is too expensive. I agree with not wanting to keep too much gasoline onboard, fire hazard etc. You could do like some friends of mine that rarely venture out without a buddy boat?

 

[assignment]

I'll chime in too. There are many different ways a boat owner can go and much of that will be based on previous experience. Many articles have been written by experts arguing one way or the other - perhaps it's like politics and religion - so. I also believe a properly maintained single diesel engine, even tier-2 common rail electric ones, can provide trouble-free and reliable service for the lifetime of the engine. Besides, there's just no room for that slow-turning Lugger, John Deere or Gardner in my R-29 (maybe they'll fit in an R-49 someday). There is no substitute for knowing your engine and having spares...and a good safe plan of action ready if the worse case happens and you lose the prime mover.

We have prolific Towboat US (we subscribe for $140 per year) and Seatow services throughout the Chesapeake Bay which is a lower cost alternative to a second engine or kicker. It also gives gives us peace of mind. Maybe Lehr, manufacturer of the new propane powered outboards, can come up with higher HP engine. That way, one could use it to get back into port then unscrew the bottle and cook some burgers on the grill.

Our local gearheads tell me the Yanmar 6BY2-260 has a very good reputation as a reliable powerplant, not only in our Tugs but with many other boats (and repowers).

 

[Pete]

TowboatUS and Seatow are among the few insurance policies that can legitimately be called bargains. On the Gulf Coast of Florida, as in the Chesapeake, you are never more than a few miles away from help. Very different in northern Michigan. One TowboatUS in Manistee, another in Charlevoix a lot of open water in between and nothing more up to the Canadian Border and North Channel. I plan to contact towBoatUS to see if they have authorized other tow services in the area since I believe they will pay if their own service isn't available.
PS. I've paid the deposit on my Ranger 27 and dropped the idea of a kicker.
Pete

 

[trailertrawlerkismet]

Pete:

Congratulations on your newly ordered R27, what color did you decide on? Let us know what you find out on the towing coverage for Michigan. When we went to Lake Powell, where BoatU.S. has no coverage they informed me that if I had a problem to call them and they would find a close by tow service to use and reimburse. I would guess it is the same for the Great Lakes, but please let us know. Also for the extra money I personally think it is worth getting the unlimited coverage.

Jim

 

[abcandjrc]

The pricing I was using to estimage towing insurance was the Boat/US insurance which seems to run no more than $160 for pleasure boats. I was not aware they did not cover all areas. For our tug, they were also the "low price leader" and would write a "specified value" policy with no problem. Until one has a claim, it is hard to evaluate insurance companies but my view has always been that I really want coverage for the 3-sigma event, not a chip in the gel coat at a fuel station.

 

[Pete]

I checked with TowboatUS for the N Michigan/N Lake Huron area. While they only have one tow operation between Manistee and the Canadian border they have a list of independent towers. If you carry their insurance, have a problem and their service isn't available they'll put you in contact with one of these independents. You pay and are reimbursed by TowboatUS. I imagine this is the case in other parts of the country also.

In my case this gives me much better tow coverage than I had appreciated. I just wish this would have been easy to check on their web site.

Pete

 

[Levitation]

Good on ya, Pete... Looking forward to the photos in your photo album on here...

The engine failures you read about are defective parts that suppliers gave the engine makers - ECM on Cummins and Hose/Oil-pressure on Yanmar - and were found out early on... Once replaced the engines were/are reliable... Ranger Tug sets the standard in the industry for responsiveness to customer problems...

Nuttins perfect (well, cept me of course :roll: ) and you have to make your own estimation as to what you are comfortable with as far as risk...