Replace or not to replace Lewmar Windlass

[Hydraulicjump]

Last summer I noticed rust stains beneath our Lewmar 1000 windlass (2015 version), but thought nothing of it. It was, and is, working fine (although it is time to grease the gypsy). But the rust stains are worse now. Clearly the stains are coming from the gasket on the port side that seals the housing of the electric motor. This means water has gotten into the housing and is rusting things and, of course, finding its way out. So it is only a matter of time until this all has to come apart. As I say, it works fine for now.

I guess until I remove it and take it apart back in the shop I really won't know what is wrong with it. But some on-line sleuthing shows that water intrusion through the seal is a common problem with these units and typically destroys the motor.

My questions are twofold:

1) any of you tackled this kind of exploratory effort? Was it straightforward (seems that it should be once I get the windlass off the deck) and how did you reseal the motor housing? Any tips are welcome.

2) there is a more expensive option, which is to replace the entire unit. Normally, this is a $1650 part, but for reasons that worry me, outlets from Defender to Amazon ($800, free shipping) are selling it at half price. I wonder if Lewmar is dumping their current inventory of Pro series 1000H to put out a next gen that doesn't leak.

3) bonus question, if I did want to do my part to stimulate the economy by buying a new one, would you take apart the leak-prone gasket and seal it with caulk or something else? I would then clean up and hang onto the old windlass and add it to my ever-growing collection of emergency spares.

Thanks.

Jeff

 

[NorthernFocus]

I replaced the motor in mine three seasons ago. It is a pretty straight forward job. Mine was the old version without a gasket at the joint. They had to be caulked. Sealed it with RTV gasket sealant(blue I think). The motor in mine was completely shot(i.e. seized). Some of the needle bearings also had a little rust on the outer edge of the races. The motor is easy to replace but I wasn't prepared to tackle the bearings so replaced the motor and got three more seasons out of it. I replaced it with a new one last week.

The price that Amazon and others sell the windlasses for is typical. At least for the past three years. I've been watching because I thought mine was going to need to be replaced not too long after my repair on it. Once in a while West Marine will put them on sale at similar prices. I don't think it's a sign of any impending doom.

Regarding the water getting into the windlass, it is widely thought to be due to the split line seal leaking but IMO it is not. It is much too widespread of an issue. IMO it is simply due to thermal breathing and resultant condensation. There is really no way to stop that occuring. The shaft is just sealed with lip seals on both ends. Fine for keeping grease in and water out but can't seal against air. So it "breathes" due to day/night temperature cycle. Moist air condenses inside. This issue can be somewhat mitigated by liberally smearing the inside surface of the housing with grease before you put it back together. Moisture will condense less on a grease coated surface than on metal. Also leaving an inch or so of the bottom seam unsealed will allow water to drain rather than accumulating in the windlass.

Hope this was useful information.

 

[Hydraulicjump]

Thanks Dan. This is great wisdom to pass on and much appreciated. Since we aren't spending money on anything else right now (vacations, restaurants, movies, etc.), might as well spend it on the boat.

And your comments should remind us all of the title of the amazing 1978 tour of Neil Young and Crazy Horse (am I dating myself?) titled: Rust Never Sleeps. And the enjoyable book by Johnathan Waldman entitled "Rust: the Longest War."

I know, off topic.

Jeff

 

[iggy]

I would take it apart to see how far done it is. It could be saved since your not having any problems with it. It may just need to be cleaned, grease and oiled. As far as gaskets, or a rebuild kit, I would call Lewmar.

Any good auto store should sell gasket materiel so you could cut out your own out. The do make a liquid one as in, https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ptx-51813

 

[Hydraulicjump]

One way or another, this is going to come apart with an attempt to restore it, whether I keep it or replace it and make it a spare. I lack the tools and expertise to pull the gears and bearings out of it, but I can certainly clean it up and grease it and, if necessary, pull the motor and replace it. It is, at this point, a genuine black box that magically moves the anchor rode up and down. Will report once I pull it apart. Thanks for the advice and a reminder that I should always have liquid gasket on board for emergency repairs (that was not in my tool kit).

 

[knotflying]

I replaced mine last year. A lot of salt water entered the unit and there was a lot of corrosion. The newer units seem to have a rubber gasket were the two housings join and the original unit did not. If you can separate it, clean it up and create an acceptable seal you may be golden. You may want to call Lewmar and ask if the new gasket can be used on the older unit.

 

[Hydraulicjump]

I got to the boat yesterday to check on the status of the windlass. First, here is the primary symptom suggesting I have a water intrusion problem:

gallery2.php?g2_itemId=73432

and here is a picture of the culprit. I pulled off the housing to see that moisture and grease are gathered at the base of the windlass and leaking through the split gasket.

gallery2.php?g2_itemId=73444

The picture does not do justice to the amount of rust. All of the teeth on the gears are obviously rusted, but that can be cleaned up. More concerning is the motor--covered in what appears to be white efflorescence and rust (?). The motor housing is pretty rusty as well and doomed at some point.

Technically, this is still under warranty, but Lewmar customer help hasn't been helpful. They told me to take it to an authorized Lewmar repair facility. There is/was one on their website in northern California. When I called them they said their certified technician had left ages ago. Lewmar then--get this--asked me to "take it" to a repair shop in Virginia. A short 3500 mile drive.

This is one of those where you are just stuck , even if the Lewmar should obviously be replacing it. So I may bite the bullet and get a new one, then take this one and do the best job I can of cleaning it up and keeping it as an emergency spare. It still runs. But I do not want to be THAT boat with a seized windlass at midnight dragging anchor in a 30kt gale. "It still works" isn't going to cut it.

 

[knotflying]

Did you try Keefe Kaplan Maritime Incorporated? That was on the Lewmar site. Did you see what the cost to ship to VA is? Worse case scenario buy a new one and clean up the old one yourself and save it as a spare for parts. In the event that the newer one goes bad. Why would you replace the newer one that is screwed up with the older one that is questionable anyway? Also, using your scenario that the windless goes bad during a blow can happen with any windless. Perhaps a newer one would be less susceptible, but the point is, if a windless goes bad at an inopportune time (new or old) you are going to have to deal with it even if you have a spare old one. Sending your windless to Lewmar does not guarantee a new one, does it? If shipping it does I am sure it will be less expensive than buying a new one on your ticket.

 

[Hydraulicjump]

An update on this and an important correction of the record.

Someone else in customer service got back to me this morning and offered to replace the windlass free of charge. They were very helpful and polite. Good results and problem solved.

In the future, I may take apart the main housing when I go to service the gypsy and just clean it up and regrease everything, and replace the gasket. I bet doing this will make it last for decades.

Thanks for advice everyone.

Jeff

 

[knotflying]

Good News!

 

[Stclairgal]

Hi everyone,
Resurrecting this old thread, hoping An experienced Tugnut can help.
I have a 2018 R23, and the windlass motor is bad. It’s a Pro Sport 550. Ordered replacement, trying to get the old motor out. Lewmar was helpful on the phone, but they’re closed now. I’ve taken off the housing and it’s nasty in there, wet and a little rusty. Lewmar said I have to remove the gears. I removed the only fasteners I can see, but can’t figure out how to remove the gears. Any tips (please and thank you!)

 

[glider4]

Stclairgal,
As other threads have mentioned, the early Lewmar Sport 550 has a poor design, a poor materials build and is prone to frequent failure. Not only that but it’s really underpowered for use on either the C-24 or R-23.
If it were me, rather than throwing good money into a bad product I’d be looking for another option. The Lewmar 1000 has been a good windlass on our current C-28 and our former R-25 Classic. On the R-25 it was still going strong after 13 years and on our C-28 we are at 7 years with no issues other than regular maintenance. It might be a bit much for your R-23 though.
I’ve heard mixed reviews on the Lewmar 700h. You might want to check the reviews out there when considering it for your boat.
At least with the 700h you would be using the same1/4” chain and rode size as you have with your 500. If you moved up to the 1000 you would need either bigger 5/16” chain and larger 5/8” rode OR install a new 1/4” gypsy sized for the 1000.
Whatever you decide make sure the wiring between battery and windlass supports the model you install.
Good luck!

Edited to correct age of Lewmar 1000 in our R-25 Classic when we sold it.

 

[Brian John]

On my R23 the Lemar 750 went belly-up during the survey, I disassembled it and found the motor fried and water in the housing. I was 10 miles from Lewmars stateside Rep but they would not sell direct. So after ordering the motor, there was a delay in getting the motor and I needed one ASAP so I found one and purchased with next day UPS delivery

Yesterday I inspected my 2022 R31 windlass, Lewmar 1000, and saw that the gasket is compressed at the top of the housing and loose on the bottom, I tightened it but realized more than likely water is in the housing and I was looking at a new motor at some time soon.

My question is has anyone said to heck with Lewmar and installed a windlass by another manufacturer?

 

[CruisingElvinRay]

I have no issues with the 550 Sport on my R-23 and we use it almost every time out. We have a 25 lbs Mantus M2 anchor and no issues with power. May replace the gypsy at the end of this season because it is getting a little worn from use.

Only posting this to say that they are all bad. In fact, most aren’t. Only people having problems are likely to post about their windlass, which can skew perception about the product.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jack_patricia]

Just another tidbit to provide context. Dan no doubt is correct that temperature shifts alone can bring some amount of salt-laden air into/out of the windlass case. But there are clearly other issues creating water penetration. Our new-to-us C248 had a total of 78 hrs and 18 months on it - mostly in brackish St. Johns River use - when its corroded motor gave up the ghost. The tech who corrected a mix of issues found on our survey made a point of creating a drain route - another point Dan made above - for water if/when it does collect. Another member here - Ken - suggested we lay a strip of U/V resistant tape over the seam between the motor and gears, which the tech thought worth doing as our Lewmar had no provision for a gasket at that seam.

Thread drift alert: The Lewmar anchor that came with our 248 also seems poorly made, specifically the angle and inadequate thinness of the biting/burrowing end of the anchor. I watched our same anchor being tested on SV Panope's YT channel (highly recommended) and its very limited performance was troubling. We're back into boating after a lengthy hiatus and, in the sailing world back then, Lewmar was a respected brand. It's hard for me to believe that is still the case.