Reverse gear trouble shooting - thoughts

[Flats]

I am working with a mechanic who is both Volvo and ZF dealer. My 2016 R25 works in forward however it does not go into reverse

As you all know these guys are very busy so we have been troubleshooting the problem remotely.

The first thing we did was to recalibrate the controls. Followed the instructions . After recalibrating the same condition continued. The boat will go into forward but not reverse.

The second trouble shooting we tried was to reverse / swap the solenoid connections, connecting wire labeled A to Soloniod B and B to A. After changing these connections moving the throttle backwards ( reverse) causes the boat to engage the forward gear and moving the throttle forward should engage the reverse gear. With this change forward worked, and reverse continued to not engage.

should I take this to imply that the reverse solenoid is probably the issue?

The only other thing yof note is that when we commissioned the boat this spring we changed the transmission fluid and filter?

Any insights are appreciated.

Regards,

Bob Flaherty


The

 

[dclagett]

With the swap of the cables you have shown that the electrical signal are in both cables. You may either have a broken connector on the reverse solenoid or the solenoid is bad. I would take an ohm meeter and measure the resistance of both solenoids to verify they are approximately the same. Disconnect the cables from each solenoid and measure the resistance between the contacts on the solenoid. If you find the reverse solenoid is open (infinite resistance) you need a new solenoid. If the resistance is the same I would swap the selenoids to see if the problem moves from reverse to forward. After the swap if forward still works and reverse still does not work, you probably have and internal reverse gear issue. If on the other hand if forward now has the problem, you need a new solenoid.

I just had to replace my reverse gear and went through similar activities, so if you need advice or a reverse gear replacement I may be able to help.

Good luck! Dick

 

[Flats]

Dick, Thanks for the response. These sound like good next steps. When you swapped the solenoids, are they one piece units that simply screw in?

Regards,

Bob

 

[dclagett]

Bob, there is a retaining plate that fits into a grove in the solenoil. The plate is secured by 1 bolt, once you remove the plate, the solenoid pulls straight out. It is a one piece assembly and are easily swapped. Just keep them clean as you handle them.

Dick

 

[Flats]

Dick,

Thanks again. I did exactly as you suggested. Tested the resistance on the solenoids, they measured the same.

I did as you suggested and reversed the solenoids, it was easy to remove and replace the clips.


The problem persists. I can go forward but again I have no reverse.

When I put the boat in reverse , there is a low humming /squeak.

You did you’re reverse gear if I understand correctly. On a scale of 1-5 with moving the solenoids being a 1 , how difficult. I am 70 , was a tech sales guy before I retired so my mechanical skills are somewhat low. That being said I replaced my impeller las heat and now have moved the solenoids….so maybe…..

Thanks again.

Regards,

Bob

 

[dclagett]

Bob,

I did not do the removal of the reverse gear myself, mechanics at a boat yard did the work. However I followed what the mechanics did throughout the whole process. Chris when he has his gear problem on the loop it sounded like the mechanic was able to remove the old gear and install the new in a few hours. I don't know if his boat was out of the water or it was done in the water. My boat was out of the water and the mechanics needed to remove the prop zinc in order to obtain enough space, moving the shaft back, to remove the gear. In addition, in my case the tortional interface which bolts to the engine flywheel was destroyed in my gear failure. In order to remove that interface the engine bell housing needed to be removed which required the engine to be raised off the engine mounts. If you did not hit anything or this failure did not happen while you were operating at speed and stopped the engine, your tortional interface should be fine. The tortional interface can be inspected once the gear is removed without removing the bell housing.

I am going to send you a PM with my phone number and I would be happy to discuss this with you further.

Dick

 

[acdfpic]

It only took the technician about 45 minutes to remove my reverse gear and the boat was in the water at the time. He just unbolted the shaft, slid it back and then unbolted the gearbox. Putting it back in took about an hour and a half...most of that was on the workbench getting it ready to go and swapping things over from the old one to the new one. Actual installation time was about 30 minutes.

Chris Boyd
RT 25SC
Destined Nomad

 

[Flats]

Chris,

Thanks, for the response. Hoping this is a template for the fix .

Regards,

Bob

 

[BB marine]

There were issues with the solenoids in the early Tugs 2014 to 2016 D3/D4/D6 Volvos. The solenoid connectors would corrode and cause connection failures. There is a updated solenoid that is now being used on the ZF/Volvo gears that maintains sealed connections.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14118&start=0&hilit=replacement+solenoids

In 2016 when I purchased my C26 Cutwater I asked the dealer if they had updated the solenoids at the factory because there was a dealer service bulletin advising manufactures and dealers about this issue. I was assured it was updated by Fluid motion. Unfortunately it was not. I knew about the issue so I made my own fix by sealing the connections with sealant and installing a splash guard over the packing gland so the packing gland drips did not sling water up onto the reverse gear with is directly above the packing gland in all of the Ranger and Cutwater engine /reverses gear installs. I would suspect this is a good possibility in your case a damaged solenoid.

The one comment you made that would lead me in a different direction is.

" The only other thing yof note is that when we commissioned the boat this spring we changed the transmission fluid and filter?

Any insights are appreciated."

The filter replacement is an easy task but in many cases if done by the Volvo Owners Manual is misleading. The ZF reverse gear has a filter that is attached to the cover and held in place by an o-ring. The filter and top cover should be installed into the filter cavity as an assembly. This insures that the ring seal is is properly aligned. My technicians and DIY owners drop the filter into the cavity and then install the cover with the thought that the alignment of the cover to filter bore will be self aligning. There is a 50/50 chance of this happening. If it does not align and the filter is not installed properly this could cause damage to the reverse gear. The ZF manual gives a better explanation of the proper way to install the filter. I have posted this thread on tug nuts in the past.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=19990&start=0&hilit=reverse+gear+filter

Based on this particular thread that you started in March I would tend to think that this may have happened at some time during servicing. The fact that your oil sample came back bad and now you lost reverse would indicate that you may want to also consider that there actually is damage to the gear and the oil sample should have been a warning to you that things may be going south.

I'm not jumping to the conclusion that the gear is damaged but it seem as your troubleshooting of the solenoids is leaning in that direction. I would completely rule out the solenoids then stat thinking about the oil sample. I know of several ZF gears that have failed in Ranger Tugs. I have suspicions that the filter installation is a contributor, keel extension installation and improper engine alignment is a contributor, and poor preventative maintenance is a contributor. If you can check all the boxes. Saying I know I installed the filter properly, I have checked and have been successful at achieving and maintaining a good engine alignment, I have changed the oil at recommended service intervals. You probably do not have an issue with the gear and the solenoids are the issue. The only other variable is a manufactures defective gear that failed because of a mechanical defect. (that does happen)

Good luck with your troubleshooting.

 

[Flats]

Thank you all for taking the time to share your experience and expertise. After my trouble shooting exercises, I have turned to the very capable team at Winter Island Yacht Yard in Salem , MA.. The somewhat good news is that the boat has an extended warranty until July 12. Hopefully the transmission is covered. Again, many thanks to my fellow Tugnuts.

Regards,

Bob Flaherty
“Muirgen”
Scituate, MA

 

[dclagett]

Bob,

If it turns out to be the gear and insurance won’t cover the failure, a new ZF45A is around $2000.00. In order to make the ZF into a Volvo Penta HS45AE-C is to remove the shift control block from the VP and replace the ZF manual control block with the VP. Also you will need to mount the VP bracket for the gear oil cooler on the new ZF. Time for this switch is about 15 to 20 minutes and you will need a new gasket between the control block and gear, about $20.

Also if you had a parts failure in the transmission and small metal fragments are present I would suggest you get a new oil cooler from VP at about $450. On mine there was no way to clean the cooler out being a sealed unit.

Good luck… Dick