Rule Automatic Bilge Pump Failure

S

sjreib

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 8, 2015
Messages
115
Fluid Motion Model
R-23 (Outboard)
Non-Fluid Motion Model
Cutwater 30CB
Vessel Name
Island Time
Another year, another aft Rule Automatic bilge pump failure. Manual at dash works fine, but no automatic cycling or response to water poured in bilge. Is this likely just a wiring issue or pump failure. Is there a likely fix other than replacement. Frustrating!

Thanks, Steve on Island Time in Edmonds(C30CB)
 
I just experienced my first bilge pump failure. Mine is the Rule 27SA (1100 gpm, automatic water sensing). The circumstances of my failure were odd. I was cleaning the bilge as part of my regular spring routine. I pulled the fuse before before removing the pump to clean the strainer. When I put the pump back into the strainer and replaced the fuse, the pump wouldn’t stop running. I tried several things to no avail. Finally, I called the Xylem/Rule support line. The verdict: the controller board was out and the pump had to be replaced.

In your case, the pump works manually, but not automatically. Those are different wires. The manual (overrid) wire is the one that runs to your switch. The automatic wire runs to is a fuse box that is hot all the time. Check that fuse, if you haven’t. If the fuse is good, try calling the company. But odds are good it is the controller board at that point. The pump is covered by a warranty for three years. (Mine was a bit over 4 years old).

The pumps are expensive! I have a spare that I got when I bought the boat (2019). The spare cost about $36 then. The going price now is between $115 and $150. Westmarine has them on sale right now ($96), and Amazon sells them for about $93 (but shop carefully on Amazon — that price doesn’t always come up readily). Near as I can tell, the pump selling now is unchanged from the same model of four years ago that cost 1/3 or less of the now-going price. I picked up a new one from Westmarine and installed it rather than my backup, since my backup is already out of warranty. Might as well use the new one with a full warranty and keep the new, but out-of-warranty unit as my spare.

Good luck. A silver lining to my experience is that I learned that replacing the pump is a bit of a PITA and at I now know how I will go about it if I ever have to do it “under duress.”

Gini
 
I also have a C-28 and the Rule 1100 GPH bilge pump that failed. Just replaced it in March same issue. Automatic sensing feature stopped cycling, but would work manually.

It wasn't too difficult to replace. I bought mine on Amazon, but later discovered West Marine in Everett had cheaper price and it was on sale for even less. They have a whole section of them in stock.

I didn't know there is a warranty for 3 years on them, I'll have to keep that in mind if this one fails again. I do find it perplexing that some controller fails for triggering the automatic feature. It feels like that must be a design flaw.
 
I had the same pump fail when winterizing our boat at the end of the second season. We store the boat on its trailer and I always pull the bilge pump fuses when she is on the trailer to limit the continual cycling of the pumps, so the pump operated at most for a few months time. We have the pump connected with a Deutsch electrical connector so replacing it is plug and play (although reaching down into the bilge is a long stretch). I carry two spares. It is a great little pump when it works. Too bad the pump manufacturer doesn't work on the quality control and durability issue.
 
The Deustch connector is a great idea. Do you use prewired plugs (“pigtails”) or have the needed crimper to do your own? I don’t have the crimper and my reservation about pigtails would be the wire quality —I haven’t seen pigtails specifically for marine applications. But a Deustch or similar waterproof plug in a 3-wire configuration would be one more way to make a swap out less of an PITA.
Gini
 
We have had the same issue with 2 of them in 4 years, and also got some spares. Last time -- 15 months ago -- we replaced the aft pump with a mechanical float switch variation from Rule (switch inside the pump, not separate). So far that has worked well but it's too early to know whether it will last longer overall. But it fit just fine.

The forward pump is far more difficult and probably needs an exact replacement model due to limited room to maneuver or change anything. We save the spares for that one, just in case.
 
This is when I'm glad I have the Johnson Pumps with sensor... they seem much more reliable... I still carry spares in any case, but they seem much less problematic.
 
Gini:
I have ordered three prong Deutsch connectors and a crimper from customconnectorkits.com. There are lots of other suppliers. Some of the professional crimpers were extremely expensive and all I needed was the crimper that would work for the size 16 pins and sockets and the one they sell seemed like the better use of funds. I also could separately purchase the three prong plugs and and pins in quantities I wanted without purchasing a big kit with connectors I would likely never use.
 
FWIW, Rule (Xylem) is pretty good about the warranty coverage. On our C28, I think the aft pump went out twice in the first year. The first time the dealer handled. The second time I did it. I called Xylem and they sent me a replacement pump with very few questions asked.
 
- S.Todd, thanks for the source on Deutsch plugs. I’ll check it out.
- itll4c: I found Xylem’s support person (Paul, I think) to be good. My unit was just out of warranty, so there wasn’t more help he could offer me. I’m not in the least critical of Xylem/Rule. (Although I hope my next pump doesn’t lose it’s circuit board cookies merely because I pull it loose and pull the plug to clean the strainer every spring).

As with other things, I try to remind myself: It’s a boat. There’ll always be something.

Gini
 
I was going to post - but found this string.
My Rule “automatic” bilge pump was installed last year when I bought the boat. Worked well in season 1.
This year however - I arrived one day and the pump was running with no water.
The only way to stop it is by removing the fuse. The pump only works manually now (main cabin switch on)
I was wondering if the rule had a mechanical sensor - that needed cleaning and jiggling but appears it is all electronic. Therefore requiring replacement.

I will purchase the pump with the self contained mechanical switch. Can’t skimp on something so vital.
Thx Gini for solid info.
 
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Check your wiring before you conclude the pump is gone. My first pump "failure" was because the factory cut the 3' sealed leads on the pump about an inch from the pump. Then spliced, and the splice to the auto corroded. Once I spliced and sealed again it ran fine. But, those boards eventually die, usually after the 3 yr warranty. The Johnson pumps with the sealed capacitor, or Atwood with the integral float are better replacement choices.
 
Jcat, that Atwood looks great.
Thx for the tip.
Looking forward to working upside down like a bat for 2 hours : )
 
Measured for Atwood…
Doesn’t look like it will fit between the hull and shaft. Bummer.
Not a fan of Rule Auto…
Rule’s marketing department is superb however…: (
Does anyone with an RT 31 have an Atwood Sahara 1,100 installed ?
Thx
 
Be very aware of the Rule 27SA auto sensing bilge pumps....Example: bought my boat used 5 mos ago......None of the 3 auto sensing pumps on my R27OB were cycling every 2-3 minutes as designed...Using the manual switches on the panel though and all 3 motors would hum as if working....So at this point I figured I had lost just the auto function on all 3 but the manual function was fine and I would just replace all 3 ...... Before replacing them I had my wife turn on the manual switch on each one as I watched the impeller...2 of the 3 the impeller was not turning but the motor was....So I had lost all three auto functions and 2 of the 3 the shaft was broken rendering the pumps inop.........Just because you hear the motor turning on manual does not mean the pump/impeller is working as I found out......As I already had the new pumps I installed them but keep a close watch on their operation......When they break, which they will most likely, I will replace with another brand/design......
 
sd1209 said:
Be very aware of the Rule 27SA auto sensing bilge pumps....Example: bought my boat used 5 mos ago......None of the 3 auto sensing pumps on my R27OB were cycling every 2-3 minutes as designed...Using the manual switches on the panel though and all 3 motors would hum as if working....So at this point I figured I had lost just the auto function on all 3 but the manual function was fine and I would just replace all 3 ...... Before replacing them I had my wife turn on the manual switch on each one as I watched the impeller...2 of the 3 the impeller was not turning but the motor was....So I had lost all three auto functions and 2 of the 3 the shaft was broken rendering the pumps inop.........Just because you hear the motor turning on manual does not mean the pump/impeller is working as I found out......As I already had the new pumps I installed them but keep a close watch on their operation......When they break, which they will most likely, I will replace with another brand/design......
Click to expand...
The failure rate on these Rule pumps is ridiculously high. I myself will never be purchasing another Rule product. I will take my chances with pumps that cost 10x less.
 
Yeah I wish the Atwood fit… but it doesn’t look like it does.
I am thinking of building a model using the Length, height, width specs.
 
dbsea said:
This is when I'm glad I have the Johnson Pumps with sensor... they seem much more reliable... I still carry spares in any case, but they seem much less problematic.
Click to expand...
Hi. I have the same boat (2016 30 CB, 435 Volvo) I bought it used about 1.5 years ago. One of my recent findings is that the rear bilge pump was not attached, but was just laying in the bilge. It worked fine when manually engage, but wasn’t working automatically, which turned out to be a blown fuse. Anyway….I am trying to determine where the thing should be mounted. There is a circular ‘bracket’ directly under the packing box - do you know if this bracket is for the bilge pump? Or is yours mounted elsewhere
?

Thanks,
Steve
Annapolis MD
Steveamolina5@gmail.com
 
I have been the owner of a R25SC for six years, and have replaced the Rule bilge pump aft three times. The cartridge pump is the only one that will fit under the prop shaft on this model.
The only other option would be to find a pump that could be mounted out side of the bilge area and use a suction hose. I have looked at removing the wash down pump and put something there.

Ralph
Semper Fortis
 
LMRanger said:
I have been the owner of a R25SC for six years, and have replaced the Rule bilge pump aft three times. The cartridge pump is the only one that will fit under the prop shaft on this model.
The only other option would be to find a pump that could be mounted out side of the bilge area and use a suction hose. I have looked at removing the wash down pump and put something there.

Ralph
Semper Fortis
Click to expand...
Thanks for the input. Seems several folks have had bad luck with the Rule brand. I plan to look at the Johnson brand mentioned previously. Just need something small enough to fit if I want to keep it down there (below the stuffing box).

Steve
 
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