Running Gear Damage from Grounding

[missnevi]

Hello All. Am looking to buy a used R-25 for cruising SW Florida waters down to the Keys. These are shallow waters that I've experienced in my former Krogen 42. I'm worried about groundings and the damages they cause. The Krogen had a full skeg with rudder shoe. Partial photos I've seen of R-25s look like the running gear is unprotected. Any experiences anyone would like to share regarding grounding or bumping isssues? Thanks in advance.

 

[ESCAPE]

Hello missnevi,

I had the same concern prior to puchacing, just recently, a Ranger 25, hull #21, 2007. I feel the prop and rudder are adequatly protected. At extreme low tide my boat sits in mud at my dock.

Bob Messmer
ESCAPE
239-775-3493
Naples Fl.

 

[hal4cal]

Groundings are usually the result of pilot error. I belive that a depth sounder is standard equipment on all Ranger Tugs. if not, make sure that the one you purchase has one. Then set an offset of 2 1/2 ft to 3 ft to allow for a margin of error. Continuously observe your depth soundings whenever your are in shallow waters and you should have no problems. To know whether or not you are in shallow waters you need to have a rudimentary understanding of how to decipher a marine chart. If you do not want to go to that much trouble you might consider an alternative means of transportation.

 

[trailertrawlerkismet]

Missnevi: I see by your post you're from Florida. I can appreciate your concerns about groundings and damage, especially with you having boated in Florida with your well protected Krogan running gear. With that said there were a bunch of us in Florida this past winter in 25's, 27's and 29's and I know of no one that had a grounding. In my opinion I feel the 2 1/2 draft with the keel coverage and prop tunnel give you plenty of protection for your prop and a small enough draft to get into almost anywhere in Florida. I've cruised in Florida waters for 5 winters, 2012 being our first with our Ranger Tug and not had a problem. This past winter fellow Tugnutters Rich and Cheryll on Roam even took their 25' 27 miles up the very shallow Wilderness Waterway from Little Shark River to the backwaters of the Florida Everglades and never had a grounding. When Lisa and I left Key West this year we took the Florida Bay ICW from Key West to Marathon and never had a problem. That's not to say that the water does not get skinny, it does but that's part of the adventure. Hope this helps any concerns you may have.

Jim

 

[abcandjrc]

Groundings are usually the result of pilot error. I belive that a depth sounder is standard equipment on all Ranger Tugs. if not, make sure that the one you purchase has one. Then set an offset of 2 1/2 ft to 3 ft to allow for a margin of error. Continuously observe your depth soundings whenever your are in shallow waters and you should have no problems. To know whether or not you are in shallow waters you need to have a rudimentary understanding of how to decipher a marine chart. If you do not want to go to that much trouble you might consider an alternative means of transportation.

You did well for three sentences but even there left out "or have one installed". After that, you not only suggested introducing intentional error to the boat's instrumentation but wound up being a bit preachy and overly sharp in response to a legetimate question by the OP.

Bad data is generally worse than no data. The offset to the sounder should typically be set so that the sounder reads depth under the keel. E.G. if your transducer is a foot above the keel the offset should be set to a foot. It would even pay to verify the offset by actual measurement since even the type of water (i.e. salt/fresh) the boat is in can make minor differences in the reading. Then, if you want 2 1/2 or 3 feet of "safety margin", the alarm function should be set to the 2 1/2 or 3 feet. Of course, with perfect knowledge of water depth by possessing a "rudimentary understanding of how to decipher a marine chart" you might correct "upward" from the depth of the transducer to the surface of the water. Then at least you will know how much water you are in at what is typically chart datum of mean lower low water. Correct once or twide a month. I suspect the captain on the QEII may have relied on chart datum when he had his little problem.

I also suspect you have never traveled the inland waters where, at best, most charts show "water" and "land". I think knowing depth under keel is more useful there, too, and the real use of the chart is to locate yourself with respect to the towboat traffic when you hear them announce their positions.

I would even say, and I don't claim authorship, that there is a great deal of truth in the saying that "If you don't go aground once in a while you are not using your boat to its fullest capability." That being said, in most grounding situations the design of my R21 leaves nothing in great danger and I presume the designs of the 25 and the other tugs provide similar protection. I think the only significant damage one could incur would be to ground at high speed going astern. Not a likely scenario.

A couple other truisms are that if entering a strange anchorage it is better to enter at low tide than at high, and any time one is aground he should pretend to be scrubbing the bottom so others will think you did it intentionally.

 

[missnevi]

Thank you abcandjrc for replying to the snide remarks made by hal4cal. Yes, pilot error is certainly a factor in groundings, but as those of us who have extensively traveled FL intracoastals know, shoaling, especially in inlets and many anchorages (we mostly anchor), is a real problem that can come up suddendly and unexpectedly, increasing the likelihood of a grounding, even at dead-ahead speeds. SW FL is especially hazardous, particularly for the adventurous. Many thanks to those of you posting helpful replies!

 

[abcandjrc]

Thank you abcandjrc .......

No problem. Having spent several hours firmly grounded in Jobe Sound one evening in a 16,000 pound displacement Crealock 37 I know how things go. I never saw a sounder go from 8 to 4 so quickly. But 4 hours later we floated off.

Unfortunately it was in the middle of the night so scrubbing the bottom would have looked stupid. I think I might still be stuck up to my knees in that mud, too. I dove the boat 8 days later in The Sea of Abaco and there was still a layer of mud on the keel.

 

[Barry Cohen]

I would like to believe that "hal4cal" did not mean for his response to come off the way it read. Because when I read it, "preachy" was a nice way of putting it.

We all know that the Tugnuts forum is for sharing and assistance. A lot of us are new to the Ranger Tug and the experience we are gaining from this forum is priceless.

Just my 2 cents on an "off-topic" topic.

 

[commander bill]

The R25 appears better protected from prop or rudder damage than many boats I have seen. I believe there was a scary post a couple of years back about a very hard grounding out at Lake Powell. If my memory is correct it involved a very hard rock that could not have been seen without forward looking sonar on a slow boat (something most of don't have). I think the outcome was no damge to running gear. That said I have 2 redundant Garmin GPS displays each with bottom info plus a cheap ($90) digital depth indication providing 3 separate indication of depth. All my years in Navy watching Captains burned because someone touched bottom while they were asleep had it's impact.

 

[knotflying]

Sorry, but I had to throw this in based on Barry's comment. And just in case, I am saying this in jest.
How come when you offer information it is "my two cents worth", but when asked it is" A penny for your thoughts"? I suspect those giving unsolicited information think it is worth more than those who ask for it.

 

[SUWANNEE]

I live in Florida, and am fairly new to power boating. As some of you know I up sized from a fleet of 14 ft kayaks to my R-27. So, I am still learning and learning.

I know that NOAA publishes a list of CHART errors and corrections that will fill the "CAVE" on my boat. I know that shoaling off the coast, inlets, sounds and rivers in Coastal Ga. is an ongoing problem. Try keeping up with the shoal problems in St. Augustine.

OF course if there were no issues Boat US and Sea Tow would be non existent.

I adventure in Little Tug just as I do when kayaking in the Swamps with Alligators. When you cruise from Apalachicola to Port St Joe, you journey through Lake Wemico on the ICW. When they dredge that portion you can go from moving to stuck in an instant if you are not concentrating.

Yep, I have put Little Tug firmly aground at Port St Joe the charts to the City Ramp were a little confusing and I missed the locally maintained STICKS that served as channel markers.My first call was to my Ranger Dealer worrying about damage to my prop etc. He proceeded to give me quite a lecture on the design and construction of my tug and that I would be just fine and I was while I embarrassingly sat within view of the boat ramp waiting for Sea Tow.

When we pulled out of the ramp and had her safely ashore there was a small issue with my prop - it was so pretty and shiny clean and polished.

I am not yet and won't probably in my lifetime be as experienced and knowledgeable as most of my fellow Tugnutters but I do know how to read charts and chart plotters and depth sounders but I can show you one set of channel markers in the Big Bend of Florida that takes you around like a pretzel and makes you wonder if you have lost direction. If you don't watch everything you will be aground.

I am very pleased with the design of my TUG for the shallow depths that I have encountered in my short life as a Ranger owner and am glad that the design will forgive me some little "oops" moments.

So in my humble opinion - the Ranger line works great in Florida - I too have journeyed to the Keys and only tapped solid surface once and that was a private poorly marked channel.

 

[GulfSailor]

Sorry, but I had to throw this in based on Barry's comment. And just in case, I am saying this in jest.
How come when you offer information it is "my two cents worth", but when asked it is" A penny for your thoughts"? I suspect those giving unsolicited information think it is worth more than those who ask for it.

Whenever I freely give advice or an opinion, I always assume that the recipient will value it at no more than the actual price they paid.
That way if someone complains it was worthless I can agree with them, and my feelings haven't been hurt either. 😉

 

[RProffer]

Here is a little tip that might help with a grounding. Turn the engine off, have everyone put on their life jackets, jump off the swim platform, and push the boat out of the goo. Don't ask me how I know. 😳 😳 😳

 

[Favunclerich]

Here's some insight as to how well the propellers are protected by the skeg. At last year's Bremerton Rendezvous, Jeff Messmer from the factory was raffling off a wide variety of door prizes for the 60+ owners in attendance. When he got to the prize of credit for a new propeller, instead of drawing a name, he just asked; "Who needs a new propeller?" As I recall, nobody raised their hand.

 

[Levitation]

Suwannee. being aground has an old true saying - There are two kinds of Captain, those who have and those who will!
Look in the classic sailing books and you will find entire chapters devoted to kedging off, shifting ballast, lashing casks to the keel at low tide so they float you off, and on, and on...

Aground is an old and hallowed tradition of the sea... (probably first caveman to sit on a floating tree ran aground at the next bend in the river)
In typing the above I had this vision of Og saying to OOG, "Here, hold my swill and watch this." as he jumped on the log...
(nurse, nurse, it's time for my pills again)

And I am jealous of your shiny all over prop blades... Mine are only shiny on the tips (mouth of alligator Creek)

 

[JamesTXSD]

Ah, Denny-o, down around our home waters in deep south Texas, the saying is a bit different: those who have and... liars.

I think I was told that one by the same guy who said, "Watch for the birds in the water. If they are long-legged birds standing in the water, you can probably go there. If they are short legged birds standing in the water, don't go there."

I thought he was being a smart-ass, but it has turned out to be good "local" advice. 😀

Best wishes,
Jim B.

 

[doke01]

The skeg and the fact that the prop is in a pocket and solid bronze work really, really well. We have been aground a couple of times with no damage. In addition, logs floating in the water are pretty common around here and the skeg/pocket combo just kicks them away from the prop. When we had our last boat with a Mercruiser I/O Alpha II we replaced the prop every year. After 5 years we have zero damage to the prop and running gear on our tug. In the end, the answer that you want is that the setup on the tug works.

 

[missnevi]

Thanks to all for replying to my query, both publicly and privately. Based on your responses I'm confident that running gear damage from groundings is not an issue for the Ranger tugs. Hope to see you in the high (and low!) seas someday in my own R-25.

Richard
(Anticipated vessel name Miss Nevi)

 

[Stella Maris]

I believe the grounding that Commander Bill is speaking of is when we ran our R-25, Solitude hard aground in Lake Mead. We were a good mile from shore in beautiful sunshine. Motoring along at 5 MPH when BAM. We were up and on the rock before I could get my hand on the throttle. The stern was resting on its keel in six inches of water. The bow though was already back in water over 90 feet deep. Not more than five feet behind us the water was at least fifty feet deep. The running gear was spared of any damage even though we required a tow off. The hull suffered $3,500 worth of damage. We were very lucky we were not holed.

 

[knotflying]

Well, today I didn't win the lottery, but I happened to get a nylon duffle bag wrapped around the prop mid way between Block Island and Montauck. With TS comming my way I plodded back to Block and now wait for the storm to pass so I can snorkel under and clear the prop. Lessons learned, ropes and other things can defy a good skeg and in a big ocean I can find duffle bags.