shore power and battery maintenance

[BB marine]

I posted that site that you are referring to on Tugnuts a year ago believed it to be true but wanted the explanation from Promariner before using that for my presentation. The ProMariner representative referenced the 1220 ProMariner ProNautic 1220 20 amp max output. Stating the referenced article was not true in the case of the Promariner. My questions were based on that article you are referring to. Right or wrong they designed it and sell it. The representative and I discussed that article in length. If my information is incorrect sorry I based it off of the representatives explanation.

 

[BB marine]

I posted that site that you are referring to on Tugnuts a year ago believed it to be true but wanted the explanation from Promariner before using that for my presentation. The ProMariner representative referenced the 1220 ProMariner ProNautic 1220 20 amp max output. Stating the referenced article was not true in the case of the Promariner. My questions were based on that article you are referring to. Right or wrong they designed it and sell it. The representative and I discussed that article in length. If my information is incorrect sorry I based it off of the representatives explanation. Thank you for your input.

 

[Red Raven]

I dug into this issue previously to try to find out how independent the ProMariner charging outputs are. The information they give in there literature is vague at best. I believe the outputs may have separate output isolation via regulators or diodes but there still is only one power supply and charge profile running at a time. Only a single output voltage is given on the display. Which output voltage is being displayed? If there were three different output profiles there would need to be a way to select between them to see each output voltage on the display.

I am not certain, but it looks like a single profile must be running. Maybe someone else can explain how it works if that is not the case.

On the other hand, I keep the battery charger on all the time without disabling the ACRs over the winter and have never had a problem.

Curt

 

[snydzy]

I am not certain, but it looks like a single profile must be running. Maybe someone else can explain how it works if that is not the case.

Exactly,...The easiest way to tell an independent output charger would be a separate positive and negative to each battery bank,... thus a separate microprocessor allowing batteries of differing type, size, and state of charge to be connected to the same battery charger. (https://www.nationaltoolwarehouse.com/1 ... gL8xvD_BwE) The other type of multibank charger type has multiple positive terminals and a single negative terminal. (all charger output is available at all positive terminals). These usually have a single microprocessor. (Promariner, Xantrex, etc.) Some (most) of these units are designed for multiple banks where the banks are charged and discharged together. These chargers don't deal well with battery banks where one bank may be significantly discharged, and the other not. This is a situation where an ACR, by combining all the batteries as one bank becomes an advantage.

 

[BB marine]

ProNautic 12-20,12-30,12-40,12-50
Amps total output divided by three as per battery condition
As per Pro Mariner technical The single processor takes inputs from each connected battery and divides outputs by battery charging requirements.
If ACR’s are used and wired to parallel each battery circuit when ACR’s close the processor will only see one battery bank and charge all as one.

Quote from ProMariner manufactures technician from my notes from last January.

The technicians explanation of a 3 bank charger with two wire output per batteries. Theses chargers rated at 30 amps have max outputs of 10 amp per battery and a single processor per bank.

The Pronautic only has one processor. This processor take inputs from each wired bank. It will divide the the 20amp charging output by battery banks needs. Example: house battery has draw and charging needs, the Thruster battery is fully charged and Engine battery is fully charged. The processor continually monitors the battery banks. It may be charging the house bank at 15 amps, and the processor will continually send a small maintenance charge at thruster bank and engine bank at a 2 amp charge. This is an example given not exact outputs.

If the ACR's are used with the ProMariner charger and all batteries are combined when ACR's requirements are met. The processor will maintain the batteries as one with. This works ok if all batteries are in good condition and close to the same condition. The engine, Thruster, and house batteries are discharging together and charging together. No harm no foul! The issue comes into play when there is a bad battery in one of the banks and the charger is combined. Example : one battery in one of the banks has a dead cell or is in poor condition. The charging profile of all the batteries will be based on the needs of the compromised battery.

This information is from my notes when talking to the ProMariner representative. I had a 45 minute call with him after explaining I was seeking information for my Ranger Tug/Cutwater presentation. Is this information True/False? I don't know because I have not proven the information given. I thought the credibility was better than any articles I had read by critics or other manufactures explanation of how other units work and how theirs is better.

Curt, I agree that if all batteries are in equal condition maintaining the ACR's in the circuit will pose no issue has I stated in an earlier post in this thread. I followed this rule up until 2 years ago. I did have an original Centennial Battery that failed (dead cell). I had the boat inside heated storage and left the charger on to maintain the batteries throughout the winter. During a visit to the boat as I opened the boat I noticed a foul smell ( rotten egg ) smell. Over looked it and continued to open the boat and start my projects. A service technician stuck his head in the boat and said you have batteries "cooking" in your boat I can smell it out here. I inspected my batteries one was " real Warm" I felt the rest of the batteries and all were warm. I shut the charger off. Disconnected the batteries All cables. load tested each battery. One of the house batteries was bad. I removed this battery from the bank and then attached all the batteries again, turned charger back on and no more smell. I continued to use the charger the rest of the winter using the ACR's. I inspected the batteries for temperature and none of them were warm as they were when the bad battery was in the circuit. My conclusion was, the bad battery paralleled via the ACR's would have "cooked" all of the batteries. I presented this to the Promariner representative and he agreed.

My information is untested and is only based on information I received from the manufacture. I have a moderate knowledge in electrical systems so how the processor works and functions I don't know other than what was explained to me by Promariner. Tool warehouse and other companies have articles explaining their products. Until I have a better explanation from Promariner or an individual has proven the outputs are all the same to each battery contrary to what The Promariner technician stated. I'm going with his explanation. Right or Wrong. When I post information I will post My opinion when it is. I will post a Question when I have a question. When I have information that I found on the internet I will post where I got it. If When I post something from my experience I will post that this is from my experience. The information I am posting here is from ProMariner.

I only stated this information to give Kevin my understanding of using the charger throughout the winter. He specifically asked about "cooking" the batteries. In my explanation I stated it probably will not hurt the batteries! I gave an example of how it could based on my experience and my follow up with ProMariner. I enjoy these post. This subject has come up several times on TugNuts and I guess it will continue. Sorry Kevin for steering your thread in a different direction.

 

[Kevin White]

Great. Thank you. So far, so good. Everything is working great right now.

 

[snydzy]

Brian,
Was your remote temperature sensor connected? It’s my understanding that once the temperature sensor is connected the Promariner will adjust its charge rate according to the batteries temperature...this is a safety feature to prevent cooking the battteries. The charger should have cut back due to thermal compensation.

 

[Kevin White]

I will monitor temperatures on the individual batteries as time goes. Right now I have the charger set to the recommended 3 hour setting out of 4. I think I will reduce it to the 1 hour setting just to be safe. I loved the direction the discussion took. A little over my head but I gleaned a lot from the input of many. Thank you all so much.

 

[Red Raven]

Hi Brian,

The posts you have made are good! No intention here to suggest otherwise. Thank you! My goal has always been to learn and to join in the conversation and to help resolve issues. It was unclear exactly how independent the ProMariner charger outputs are based on this and previous threads. Clearly, it seems there is a lot of room between combined battery banks (as with the ACRs closed) and fully independent chargers running different profiles. It appears, based on the ProMariner technician’s comment that they are providing something in between by adjusting the charge current based on Individual battery voltage. While not the same as running separate profiles (charge Voltages) I think this still would provide benefit in reducing the chance of “cooking” the other banks if one is failing. Given this, your suggestion to disable the ACRs when in storage would in fact provide benefit.

My input was only to point out that the literature and the user interface of the ProMariner does not indicate or support the idea that the charger runs separate profiles (in the sense of bulk charge voltage, float voltage, etc.) for each bank. Only one charge voltage is displayed on the charger at a time. I think that is useful information to consider when trying to determine what the chargers capabilities are. I would be interested to learn more about ProMariner’s “Distribution on Demand” scheme. It would be nice if their literature described this in more detail. For example, which battery bank is used to change from one charge profile stage (voltage) to the next? (The first bank to reach the charge conditions, the last, an average?)

I doubt that we will ever get all the answers but the additional detail you have provided here helps me to better understand what may be going on and does support the practice of disabling the ACR’s while charging from shore power.

Thank you again for this post (as well as your other excellent posts!).

Curt

 

[BB marine]

Brian,
Was your remote temperature sensor connected? It’s my understanding that once the temperature sensor is connected the Promariner will adjust its charge rate according to the batteries temperature...this is a safety feature to prevent cooking the battteries. The charger should have cut back due to thermal compensation.

Snydzy, Unfortunately I never looked or questioned the installation of the temp sensor. Long story short when my boat was built Fluid Motion either forgot or does not install temp sensors during the charger installation. I did not have one installed. Would this have helped maybe, probably. I did discuss this with ProMariner. Unfortunately with the unit installed it senses one of the batteries for temp. Had I had a sensor installed and it was on the failed battery it would have helped for sure. If it was attached to the other house battery it would have eventually started to cook has the other batteries would have but eventually come into play and reduced charger output to help from damaging the rest . If the ACR's were disabled it would have just helped from damaging the good house battery. Needless to say since installing AGM's I do have a temp sensor installed to one of my house batteries.

.Clearly, it seems there is a lot of room between combined battery banks (as with the ACRs closed) and fully independent chargers running different profile It appears, based on the ProMariner technician’s comment that they are providing something in between by adjusting the charge current based on Individual battery voltage. While not the same as running separate profiles (charge Voltages).
I agree fully.

Great discussion !