Shower and Creature Comforts

[Navigator's Son]

Steve:

I think what you are really pointing out to me, is that I need to go to school on the electrical systems. That's not my forte and I've spent no time looking at it.

My expectations, with no real thought to it, was that on shore power its virtually sky's the limit on device usage.

I will be getting a generator, and in the summer it will be running AC. I guess I need to understand how much is being produced and what the different devices draw in consumption to understand what the "power budget" is.

Where can I find that information? In the owner's manual?

When you have unlimited access to shore power - sure, the sky's the limit, as long as you don't run all your AC devices at the same time - electric stove, microwave, coffee maker, air fryer, hair dryer, you get the picture. You still have to always be aware of total amp draw.

I understand the perceived convenience of a 120v AC TV over a 12v DC one. When the factory supplied TV dies, you want to simply buy a new TV, plug it into the AC receptacle, and you're good to go. Would it have been convenient to have that 1 extra AC outlet installed where the TV currently sat? Sure... If you are always only using the TV when you have access to shore power, why not.

Air conditioning aside - all the other AC appliances you mentioned are (should be) short use items especially when you are away from shore power, as they are real power hogs and will quickly leave you with a dead house bank. So fire up the engine or generator for 5 - 15 minutes while using them.

But now back to that TV - do you really want to be running that genny or your engine at 10pm at an anchorage just so you can power your 120v AC TV?

And just to tie up the loose end about lost power converting DC to AC to DC

https://marinehowto.com/a-look-at-inver ... iciencies/

 

[FWTMD]

Wow. Eye-opening. Thanks.

And also that is in a site I have not seen and book marked it to go through more since that piece is so well done.

Many thanks.

 

[BB marine]

When you have unlimited access to shore power - sure, the sky's the limit, as long as you don't run all your AC devices at the same time - electric stove, microwave, coffee maker, air fryer, hair dryer, you get the picture. You still have to always be aware of total amp draw.

I understand the perceived convenience of a 120v AC TV over a 12v DC one. When the factory supplied TV dies, you want to simply buy a new TV, plug it into the AC receptacle, and you're good to go. Would it have been convenient to have that 1 extra AC outlet installed where the TV currently sat? Sure... If you are always only using the TV when you have access to shore power, why not.

Air conditioning aside - all the other AC appliances you mentioned are (should be) short use items especially when you are away from shore power, as they are real power hogs and will quickly leave you with a dead house bank. So fire up the engine or generator for 5 - 15 minutes while using them.

But now back to that TV - do you really want to be running that genny or your engine at 10pm at an anchorage just so you can power your 120v AC TV?

And just to tie up the loose end about lost power converting DC to AC to DC

https://marinehowto.c

You are spot on with your information. Many smaller 120V TV's actually operate at 14V and can still operate properly at 12.4V. These TV's have a transformer converting 120V to 14V. Many TVs have internal power supplies that use 120V to power them and convert lower DC voltage to operate the sound, video, and power the screen. Not all can be converted that easily. The easy conversions have the DC plug-in in the back and come with a transformer The key decision one has to make is what is important. Good quality picture and TV performance or battery energy efficiency. If you area boater that plans on spending 75% of your time on the hook battery efficiency should be important over picture quality. If you spend 75% of the time on the hook chances are you probably are not that interested in a clear picture you are more interested in a clear sky at night to enjoy the beautiful view of the stars. If you are a boater that enjoys cruising during the day and the amenities of a marina at night with an occasional evening at a nice anchorage. A better quality picture TV that uses 120V may be your choice. There really isn't a right answer. We have Both the 12V TV that has poor quality picture unless you are looking straight into it and a quality 120V 26" smart TV that is not powered by a transformer and has an internal power supply with multiple DC voltage outputs.

The information that you provided in your post is good information and makes sense. It also gives the awareness that the power from the inverter is not that efficient and probably reduces the longevity of the batteries. I revisited my TV choice decision because you brought this up. As much as I want to say we like spending as much time as we can on the hook while on board. We probably Like longer hot shores at a marina, shore power with the air on when it is hot, walks to the near by town and watching a good movie at night. "creature comforts". The decisions are made by the way you use your boat.

 

[FWTMD]

I revisited my TV choice decision because you brought this up. As much as I want to say we like spending as much time as we can on the hook while on board. We probably Like longer hot shores at a marina, shore power with the air on when it is hot, walks to the near by town and watching a good movie at night. "creature comforts". The decisions are made by the way you use your boat.

Wisdom.

And therein lies the rub for someone returning to boating after decades away from it, with a wife new to boating. Decisions will need to be made as an order approaches without history of use.

Another element is boating location. Folks in the PNW seem not to need AC much. The Chesapeake is a different place and from June through September its a necessity on most nights. I have just assumed that when on the hook the generator will be running all night to power AC. Unless the thing is objectionably loud while sleeping, why not, since its there. Fuel would be one answer, but I gather they sip little of it.

Its the marina vs hook time that becomes an unanswerable question at this point.

My wife does like her movies. If a good quality TV screen means AC power, then that means it leans that way provided there is the generator power to handle it. That's not efficient, but it is spousal satisfaction which is the trump card. Figuring out how to feed it with a signal becomes a second problem. On to figuring out whether any of the wireless options have enough bandwidth to run a Roku with it.

 

[FWTMD]

Geez. I just ran a speedtest on my cell phone internet sitting at home. 2 bars strength. Its running 20 mps. MORE than enough bandwidth presuming connections are possible.

 

[SJI Sailor]

There are many factors than may affect it, but we often use phone "tethering" to stream Netflix and YouTube to a Roku device connected to our stateroom TV. That has worked fine for us when we are in decent coverage areas.

FWIW our TV unit had an HDTV input port; just had to remove the TV from its mount to get access to that on back and connect to the Roku. The Roku stick itself fit well on the bottom edge of the TV with adhesive. A Roku box would be more of a problem due to its size.

One thing I don't recall is how/whether we connected USB to it for power; I seem to recall that the TV also had a USB port that we used for that, but I was doing so many new boat projects I don't remember for sure 🙂 I would check out all of that before buying a stick (as, of course, I did NOT do).

 

[JamesTXSD]

Using the generator also means you should have an understanding of anchoring etiquette: things like not anchoring too close to a boat that is already there, putting out the right amount of scope that won't interfere with other boats, and judicious use of your generator - especially at night.

If you are at a dock with power, you don't need your generator. If you are at anchor, you may not need your generator overnight. It is always cooler at night, and when anchored, the bow of your boat is pointed into any breeze... open a hatch and let Mother Nature provide the cooling for you. If necessary a 12v fan can keep you comfortable, too.

In years of boat cruising, there has been only one time while at anchor that we needed the a/c, and that is because there was a thunderstorm making the conditions unbearably humid. You have probably heard "It is always cooler on the water"... yep, and the hull of your boat is floating in that water that is generally cooler than the outside air. It makes a difference.

As far as electrical use, it depends on whether your boat is 30amp or 50amp. Most smaller boats are 30amp supplied, and that means you will generally use your electric appliances two at a time at most - pick the priority: electric heat, water heater, microwave, hair dryer, coffee maker, electric grille, air conditioner, electric cooktop, etc, etc. For those who have never had to prioritize appliance use, is may seem like your a "roughing it." In actual practice, that isn't the case. There are MANY boaters out there who do not have any means of running ANY appliance on their boat, and they get along just fine. In whatever Ranger you decide on, you will still be living LARGE on the water.

We have used our phone as a hot spot for over a decade, and that has worked great for us. In some remote areas, there may not be a phone signal to be had. In other areas that have spotty coverage, a booster can make the difference in getting a usable signal or not. If your wife needs a movie, load 'em up on your iPad before you leave home, and you are good to go. Keep in mind that using the phone may result in some high data usage - we are grandfathered in on a true unlimited plan (no throttling), so that is also why it works for us.

Since you have asked some good questions, I would suggest that you take a US Sail and Power Squadron or US Coast Guard Aux Safe Boater Class. It would be good for you and your wife to take it. You will learn plenty about Rules of the Road (I can't stress enough how important that is for your safety), docking, anchoring, boat usage... AND you will meet other boaters who are as anxious as you to learn all about how to do it up right (and safely). It WILL be worth your time.

Good luck with this process.

 

[FWTMD]

SJI:

Thanks for that. It eases the mind as to the possible. Precise ports included will depend on the specific model installed, or purchased ourselves if we go AC power on it.

But yeah, the best coves will have the least cell coverage. The art of the possible enters into this.

 

[FWTMD]

James:

The most important thing you mention is the last thing. Boater courses. I have a lot of experience but dated decades ago. No one can have too much safe boating instruction. Maybe that's the difference between a confident newbie and experience ... the experienced knows that learning from the more experienced is cheap.

My wife is an absolute newbie. We WILL be taking courses together. All we can find. I'm not sending her alone to them, and I don't mind more. At all.

And, I'm quite familiar with anchor etiquette, including swing. I wish all did. If some kook comes in after me while I already have my generator running and decides to crowd me, then him hearing my generator is the least he deserves. 🙂

You are in TX. I will be in MD on the Chesapeake. Cool nights are a treasure in mid-season but rare. Often evening breezes are not there. I know from active cruising there in my youth. Trust me, I grew up there and know the climate. I still maintain a home there.

As far as the power budget goes, YEP, that's precisely what I am working out. At a minimum you have cabin lights, two fridges and AC. On a generator. Add a TV possibly on an inverter and maybe "something else" and that's the reality to add up. Art of the possible. And hence the questions ... what's possible. To then set expectations with my wife.

 

[Cutwater28GG]

ive found that we watch ipads when we want tv and movies and never watch the TV.
There's a little trick you can do while lying in the forward bunk where you can rest the ipad on the hatch handles when they are at just the right angle and you can lie on your back in bed and watch a movie with the ipad on the ceiling!. most convenient!

 

[FWTMD]

LOL. Interesting idea!

The reason to go with AC power TV was picture quality etc. (with the con being power consumption of course). I did a 2 min shallow dive on DC TV's and found that indeed some are poor but some are good, so they say. It may be as simple as a better DC TV, was my takeaway. Again, it was a quick peek at the topic. TV's are one thing that we all know have evolved fast in quality. Whatever options / models exist today will likely be eclipsed soon, anyway.

 

[SummerSteve]

As a longtime Chesapeake Bay boater and recent Cutwater owner - with many nights on the hook and at marinas around the northern two thirds of the Bay - I agree that overnight use of the generator is unnecessary and potentially rude. Several times we've anchored only to be joined by a powerboat (oddly - never a sailboat) that arrives after us and within earshot, fires up their generator - which we hope will be just for a bit - and leaves it on all night.

Concur that it is rare indeed that by 10 PM it is so warm in the cabin with hatches open and a fan running that AC would be needed. At a marina, on the other hand, running the AC is nice, not only because the surroundings block breeze, but the marina noise is muted by closed hatches.

We tend to schedule one or two nights at anchor followed by a marina night - where we catch up on long hot showers and AC!

There are times when we've kicked on the generator to prepare dinner and cool the interior down - but once the sun is down we shut it off and open up to enjoy the evening breezes.

 

[FWTMD]

Steve:

If a tree falls in the woods ...

I don't know what your habits are in anchoring spot selection, but I can tell you what mine were when I last owned a cruising sailboat. I found it to be no particular fun to anchor in crowded ports. I sought out secluded spots. If there is no one near me, its nobody's business but my own what decisions are made about generator use. In point of fact, a cocktail on deck before and / or after dinner in peace is part of the joy. In point of fact, if its stinking hot and bug-ridden (and you know it can be) then you are driven inside and its a different ball game.

When I last spent my summers cruising, and did break down and anchor in popular crowded ports, there were plenty of generators running (and one more would have made no difference) but that was the least of my personal unhappiness with the state of affairs. The nights spent with poorly anchored boats swinging into me kept me sleepless. The crowding had conversations carrying. One night about bedtime I had a boat come roaring through a VERY crowded anchorage and within maybe 10 feet of me, throwing a wake. Nope, I don't remember caring about hearing generators, at all. Not even a small part of my memories.

I didn't have a generator on my tiny boat, but I didn't begrudge those who did. If I didn't like that, it was my choice to pick a spot more to my liking where that just wasn't going to happen.

No, when I anchor I hope to do it in solitude. Otherwise, why not go for a marina, hot showers, and pub grub in a nearby restaurant?