Shower bilge won't turn off

[it4llc]

I came onto my boat yesterday and the shower bilge was running non-stop. I looked at it and nothing seemed obvious in terms of problems. This one has the float switch, which was down. When I pulled the float up, the bilge actually sounded like it was working harder. From what I can find online, it is only operated via the float, so I am not sure why it would be running, then when I lift the float it would run even harder, ie I would expect it to either be on, or off. Pulling the fuse turns it off. Based on other posts, I'd think the switch was bad, except for that fact that lifting the float changes the noise on the pump. Does the pump have both the internal sensor as well as the external float, ie should I try cleaning the pump itself? This is on a 2020 C28.

 

[Osprey]

I think you need a new float switch. With the float lever down there appears to be a weak fault circuit within the switch causing the pump to operate a low speed. When you pull the lever up a normal contact is achieved and the pump runs at full speed.
As to the pump itself, I am not sure how well this design will stand up to continuous dry operation. so it would be best to check the pump for damage. Overheating can damage the plastic. Does the impellor turn freely, is there excessive shaft play, perhaps discoloration of the pump housing?

 

[it4llc]

Thanks - that makes sense. The pump does work - I tried flushing some water through the system and it does clear the water, and I didn't see anything from the visual inspection I was able to do without removing it. I will try to get the pump out though to check more closely, and potentially do the upgrade that others have by installing a dedicated switch in the head for the pump.

 

[Ralf H]

Hi it4llc,

I agree with Osprey. The symptoms you're experiencing seem to indicate a defective float switch. If the lever is able to be put all the way down and it still runs, it pretty much means that the switch is faulty. Hope this helps.

Thanks,

Ralf

 

[pleeson]

On my eight year old boat the float on the shower sump has failed in the on position twice. This is with no water use and no water in the sump. Thankfully, I've been on the boat both times and was able to cut the wire to remove power to the pump. I have now added a switch for when I want to take a shower. Fire hazard removed but I have to lift the hatch to activate the circuit when needed. Didn't feel like fishing wires and mounting the switch in a more accessible location. It seems these units are of poor reliability.

 

[Diatom]

Ditto to PLEESON / Bairn.
2012 C26, constant-on fail on the float switch, previous owner wired inline switch under floorboard. When time permits I'll fish wires up and plant an accessible switch.

 

[knotflying]

I installed a spring loaded (always off) rocker switch to avid this issue. I left the float in. If it gets stuck it won't matter. When we use the shower as the water raises above the drain, you just push and hold the rocker switch until everything drains. This is a standard setup on many boats. I am not sure why Ranger has not adapted this method. There has been many a dead battery because of this setup.

 

[Osprey]

Knotflying’s spring type switch installation which by passes the float switch is a straight forward and reliable method of solving the float switch defect. A good example of the KISS principle.

My approach was based on an intent to have the convenience of a float switch but at the same time guarding against the switch “going rouge” again. To accomplish this I installed a new float switch in the sump box and mounted a three way waterproof toggle switch to the sink cabinet. Then, by doing some simple rewiring, I have three option. The selected option depends on the toggle setting:
1. No power to the sump box components. This serves as the safe mode. i.e. when the shower is not in use (rogue protection)
2. Power to the float switch for normal operation.
3. Bypass of the float switch with power directly to the pump. This serves as a manual mode not unlike that set up by Knotflying. This mode would be used to empty the sump if the float switch failed.

With the above system the user needs remember to set option # 1 after using the shower. Inattention could easily leave option 2 active (no rogue operation protection).

 

[jlhowland]

On most models, like the C-28, the AC condensation drains into the shower sump. If you opt for a manual shower bilge operation, you will need to empty the sump periodically when operating the AC.

 

[BB marine]

The C26 and C28 have a shower sump in a less than desirable location. It is a PIA the first time around to troubleshoot and replace. If you are a DIY owner this is the time to make the repair and replace easier. Move the sump assembly remove the hidden screws, move the transducer so that access is easier for repairing the sump. (Many have complained about the install over the years, the factory guys I'm sure have had to replace this float switch and know what a PIA it is) Yet it is still installed in the same place the same way!
The reason for the float switch is to pump out condensate produced from the marine air and shower drain water. To install a on/off switch will work for one purpose but not for both. I know to turn it on when showing but not when it is full from condensate. I have replaced my float once in 5 years of owning the boat. It failed because it is a component that is relatively inexpensive, sits in water all the time and is electrical. I have seen them fail in the past, with in a month of operation, 1 year, 5 years, never. It is like any other electrical ,mechanical, or stationary component manufactured. Every component installed in our boats has the potential to fail. Most of us rely on our preventative maintenance to reduce the failure rate and maintain the reliability. If my shower/condensate sump had a float switch that continued to fail I would (1) make sure the sump is maintained and cleaned, (2) I would try a different manufactures float switch and see if that switch gives me better longevity. (3) I would install the same float switch and keep a spare on hand for insurance. The option of installing a manual switch would not be an option for the application in the C 26 or C28 with marine air. I would not want the condensate draining into the bilge area in the bow. The drainage from bow to engine compartment has a little bit to be desired. The boat at rest sits level to slightly bow down. Just my opinion.

 

[it4llc]

Thanks Brian - good insight as always.

 

[GaylesFaerie]

Knotflying’s spring type switch installation which by passes the float switch is a straight forward and reliable method of solving the float switch defect. A good example of the KISS principle.

My approach was based on an intent to have the convenience of a float switch but at the same time guarding against the switch “going rouge” again. To accomplish this I installed a new float switch in the sump box and mounted a three way waterproof toggle switch to the sink cabinet. Then, by doing some simple rewiring, I have three option. The selected option depends on the toggle setting:
1. No power to the sump box components. This serves as the safe mode. i.e. when the shower is not in use (rogue protection)
2. Power to the float switch for normal operation.
3. Bypass of the float switch with power directly to the pump. This serves as a manual mode not unlike that set up by Knotflying. This mode would be used to empty the sump if the float switch failed.

With the above system the user needs remember to set option # 1 after using the shower. Inattention could easily leave option 2 active (no rogue operation protection).

Hi Osprey, does the wiring diagram below represent how you re-wired a 3-way switch into the sump box? If so how did you connect the wires that I highlighted in red? If it was normal house wiring I would twist the three wires at the junction together with a wire nut, but that obviously doesn't apply here. I'm curious what type of connectors are used? Thanks, GF

Switch wiring diagram: https://photos.app.goo.gl/MmyBqJC6vWsjLtpe8

 

[Osprey]

Hello GF,
The circuit diagram you posted shows how I did my installation. The factory positive input lead will be brown and the ground output lead yellow. It is likely that the pump will have red for positive and black for ground (negative). The float switches are generally not polarity sensitive.

Now addressing the 3 wire function you have circled in red. One way is to use a marine grade (Ancor brand) crimp connecter. I would choose a connecter size to accept and firmly crimp grip two wires slipped into one end of the connecter. However, the situation now is that the second end of the connector is too big to allow a firm crimp on the remaining single wire. So, what I have done, is strip a double length of insulation from the single and fold back the bared end on itself. This produces the equivalent of two wires to fit into the connector. Shrink on tubing should be used to seal the finished connections. An alternative sealing method is to apply Starbrite Liquid Electrical Tape. This product is a brush on plastic coating.

Another approach to making a 3 wire connection is to terminate the end of each wire with a marine grade ring terminal. The connections are achieved by using a suitable length/diameter SS nut and bolt (sort of a floating buss bar). This works well when joining wires of different AWG. Each terminal size matches the AWG of the individual wires. Starbrit can be used to seal the connection. Alternatively a coating of dielectric will provide corrosion protection.

To state the obvious all these connections are made in a dry location outside the sump box.

 

[GaylesFaerie]

Thank you Osprey. Your first solution seems the simpler solution. Using ring connectors and a block is more involved but under consideration given that these factory pump configurations are unpredictable and require somewhat frequent repair. Score another point for this forum and the people who contribute. Thanks, GF